Regional Transit Partnership (2017-2025) Meeting   2/22/2024

Thank you very much.

Welcome.

The first thing that we normally do at our meetings is introductions.

So I'm going to start right away with an introduction.

Mike, somehow or other, I always looked to my left.

Lewis, Scott Silsdorf, UVA, Parks and Transportation.

And just let me make a comment that Charlene is retiring, so William is here in that position for Albemarle High School.

and Gretchen?

I'm Gretchen Thomas.

Sara is on the phone.

Thank you.

Great.

So let me just make a comment and then we'll need to approve Katie joining the meeting.

But I want

Well, no, it's been a privilege to serve with everybody here.

There are some exciting initiatives.

I'm going to go work with the VDOT Culpeper Planning District.

I'm still going to be the VDOT support personnel for the TJPDC and the Charlottesville, Albemarle, Olympia.

So I'm still going to work a lot with you.

Please don't hesitate to contact me.

One of my jobs is still going to be to provide support to this region.

There's a lot of exciting things going on in the region.

And VDOT has a lot of projects that are coming out right now in this region as well.

They do, yes.

But that's all good.

Thank you.

Thank you all.

Well, thank you.

And with that,

I need a motion to approve Katy joining the meeting.

So could I have a motion to that?

So moved.

Thank you, Scott.

Is there a second?

Second.

Second from Natalie.

All those in favor, please say aye.

Any opposed?

You're welcome here.

And the next item.

I will call for voice vote for approval of the agenda.

Please say aye.

Aye.

Any, um, so we now have the agenda.

The next item are draft needs and these are from January.

I don't know if anybody

Second.

And second from Howell.

Thank you very much.

All those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

All right, then we are on to the big topic of the day, which is our governance study, the final report

recommendations.

And I think everybody at the table is aware that we've been looking at the state and governments of what could very well be a regional transit authority.

And we're looking at that through the lens right now from our consultants.

So Stephanie, can you hear us OK?

I'm not seeing you right now, but

Yes, I can hear you.

We can hear you as well.

OK, excellent.

Oh, okay.

I have my camera on too.

But thank you so much for your time.

Thanks for inviting us back to discuss this very important topic.

We've been having, the whole of last year, we had several conversations and discussions with many of you in the room that are stakeholders and had some RTP meetings as well, discussing the governance study, looking at transit governance in

Region 10 in the Charlottesville area, trying to identify potential options for moving forward and improving transit in the region.

And so for today's discussion, we are going to briefly, because it's been so long since our last meeting, we'll just do a brief overview of what the main goals are for this study, what the approach, and then dive straight into what the key findings and recommendations were.

We'll just also look at the next steps and then have a time for questions if anyone in the room has them.

So this study, as many of you know, it wasn't developed in isolation.

It's been a progressive interest in improving transit in the region over the years.

As far back as 2008, there was an initial study to look at establishing an authority in the region.

This actually led to the RTP formation, which has been successful and has been partnering with the localities and working so far.

In 2022, Albemarle also had a transit study to look at services in their region.

And for the entire region, there was a transit vision plan.

The purpose of this plan was to identify or to look at what transit could be like in their region.

So additional services, what connectivity could look like and how

Finally, last year, we began the governance study to dive a little deeper into those issues.

Now, we started by looking at the existing conditions in the region.

Right now, there are the three main providers.

There's CAT, Jaunt, and UTS.

Each one of them provides different types of services.

But at the end of the day, we wanted to identify how we can leverage what is being done now and how to improve them.

So we had discussions with each of the providers, with Jaunt, with CAT, and also with UTS.

We looked at that and tried to merge it with the results from the Regional Transit Vision Plan.

Now, the Regional Transit Vision Plan, it went through a very collaborative process.

to identify needs for the urban and rural areas.

And so what we did then was to focus on one of the networks that was developed, which was based on potential additional funding in the region.

That network included additional services

increasing the types of services as well.

And I believe you can find the final report on that on the TJPD website that goes into detail about the types of services and the improvements that are listed for both the urban and the rural areas.

And so for this study then, we had two main goals.

First, we wanted to review existing governance in the region that is looking at the existing service and try to identify options that have worked for other regions, try to identify what are models that could be feasibly implemented in this area, identify

Lessons learned from other transportation authorities in the Commonwealth.

So looking at agencies like NVTA or other similar type agencies.

the Hampton Roads as well, Williamsburg, and try to identify some lessons learned.

We also wanted to know what kind of mechanisms can be implemented to ensure that the outcomes of any set authority is very effective and also protect the interest

of the participating localities.

The second piece of this study was also looking at potential revenue generation.

How could we find additional funds for the increased service that we wanted to be provided by this authority?

And so we also looked at potential funding streams and what is feasible in the context of the Commonwealth, what has been done, what has been permitted in the past,

and again, looking at examples like from the Hampton Roads or Northern Virginia.

Part of the entire process was we had a lot of engagement from the localities and other stakeholders.

At the local level, we spoke to and interacted with all of the counties, the city, the operators

as well as the MPO.

We also engaged on at the state level with VDOT, some of the other peers that we studied like the HR TAC and Hampton Roads Transit.

NVTA, WADA, representatives from DRPT, as well as VDOT, especially when it came to the revenue side, talking to them.

And then finally, we also reached out to regions outside of Virginia.

in Ann Arbor, Blacksburg in Virginia, Bloomington, Iowa, Ithaca State College.

They also had very similar conditions to the TJPDC region where they have multiple transit providers, a large university,

or education institution.

And some of them had some sort of consolidated services or were working independently, but would coordinate very effectively.

And so based on all of that, we're able to discuss that with the stakeholders and come up with some findings.

Our general approach for the study, like I said, we started looking at the existing conditions.

So what services are available in the region right now?

and how are those services governed, looking also at the funding available.

Then we did the peer study analysis, which included the national peers as well as those from in Virginia, the existing transportation authorities.

We went on to focus on identifying potential revenue generation options that could be viable in Region 10.

And then lastly, we had several discussions and tried to identify some options that could work in this region.

And so I'll just move on to the main findings from this study.

The first one was, I understand in that with all the interaction, there is that general desire for transit governance.

And so at the end of the study, what we recommended was activating, there's an existing legislation for the region that allows for setting up a transit authority called CARTA.

It's a Charlottesville Albemarle Transportation Authority.

And it's available by legislation but it does not have any funding associated with it.

And so what that allows is for the participating localities that agree or that want to be part of this to pass it at their local government levels.

And that's a very simple way that they can set up or establish CARTA.

And so the recommendation is in the interim, have that established CARTA as that interim entity that provides that forum for further discussion.

We believe that having that will provide some momentum to continue and on the path of

trying to identify additional resources for transit.

draft up the finalized bylaws and engage the localities that want to be involved in the beginning.

We know that as of now, we want the initial members to be Charlottesville and Albemarle, and it's still open for any other locality to participate as they wish.

And so once this is set up,

This can become that forum for having those preliminary discussions and identifying potential role of entity and regional governance.

You can confirm participation by other stakeholders in the region, the other localities, and have that structure in place.

And so in looking at next steps, it would be setting up the work group, activate CARTA, which

What is involved in that is the governing bodies at both localities passing a resolution to adopt CARTA as a transit authority and then initiate the initial work.

So drafting some of the action items.

Picking up, working on the transit priorities that were identified in the vision plan, but that would also include identifying at a detailed level the administrative functions and how to handle initial costs and sorting all of those details out before working on getting legislative support for

for approval of a funding legislation.

And so that is the main next step that we think can push this work further.

The authority that we recommend would be ideally, so this is the ideal authority that

recommend its initial members as the city and the Albemarle County, but also having the counties of Fluvanna, Greene, Louisa, and Nelson

Given them an option to also opt in or to join the authority if they wish to do so and having it governed by a board that is made up of elected representatives from each of the localities.

The authority would have the

Its role would be for transit planning for the region to control transit funding as well, governance and oversight for transit activities in the region.

Several other details on the roles of this authority, including

They would have all the powers of other authorities that have been approved in the Commonwealth, such as being able to bond, being able to plan for transit in the region, enter contracts for service provision, or even having the ability to provide that service themselves if needed.

We also talked about making sure that we put in place some mechanisms so that we can ensure accountability for this authority.

We came up with a few options mechanisms here.

The first would be

The representation that is inherently provided on the board by having elected officials serve as board members, you have that representation, making sure that everybody's voice is heard.

We also recommend setting up a technical advisory committee so that there could be participation from

and other stakeholders such as DRPT, VDOT, DMPO, TJPDC, the operators in the region as well including CAT and Jaunt.

Also making sure that this, because it's a technical advisory committee, that

The planning is informed by what is best needed for the region on a technical capacity rather than any other criteria.

We also recommend that the authority would develop specific guidance and decision-making criteria for making investments in transit in the region so that it's very objective and easy to explain to the residents of the region.

Other mechanisms we've seen that work well in other transportation authorities are the financial reporting oversight and the funding oversight capabilities as well.

Now, the second major point that we identified from

The study was the need for a rural transit needs assessment.

In several of our stakeholder meetings with the rural localities, we realized that the localities wanted to better understand what kind of transit they needed at a detailed level, wanted to understand the proportions of their population that need transit service so that they can make better decisions on how

how much they want to invest in transit as well.

And so having a rural transit needs assessment, whether it is funded by the localities themselves or from another entity that would want to support this or the operators, however it can be funded, it seemed like a very crucial next step to help bring all the rural localities on the same page as regards to transit needs in their localities.

Next was the perceived control of transit governance in the region.

So we have in region 10, there's the urban side and the rural side, but we wanted to make sure that no one stakeholder felt left out or that their voice isn't heard, even as the authority continues.

And so making sure that there's

continuous engagement in the early stages of setting up CARTA as the interim entity and with working toward drafting modifications for the General Assembly.

And so making sure that one, the needs assessment is carried out and is well understood by the rural stakeholders, but also ensuring that all the rural

localities are still involved and engaged throughout the process.

And lastly was collaboration with UVA.

So during the study, we did engage with the university several times to understand the position that they could play in such an authority or in transit for the future.

The peer studies that we looked at

of other regions in the country that have major universities.

We noticed that the university systems were often crucial partners to the region and many times provided financial resources for transit in the region.

And so there could be arrangements for UVA to participate, but again, that would have to be based on discussions with all the stakeholders involved.

to decide the extent to which they want to participate and how they can be leveraged best for their region.

The second major portion of this study was looking at potential revenue generation options.

With this, we used as a starting point, we started first with how transit is funded generally across the United States, then narrowed it down to what we've seen being used in the Commonwealth of Virginia.

So looking at HRTAC,

NVTA, and then the recently implemented CVTA enrichment.

With those entities, what we saw that they are funded by a combination of the sales and use tax, grantees, fuel, the lodging tax, recordation, toll revenues, and other sources.

Now with this, we had discussions with some stakeholders, including VDOT, to try to understand how the laws that have changed from 2020

through to 2023.

There were some changes in laws and how

Money is allocated.

And as a result of that, not all of these sources would be available for an authority for Region 10.

For example, the fuel tax had, the way the fuel tax is used in transportation has changed over the last three or four years.

And so that may not be an available source right now.

But after our research and our interviews with the stakeholders,

We identified four sources as options for Region 10.

Now these are starting points, right?

And the interim committee that is established can look at what is viable or what is better for the region as a whole.

We saw that with these four, the sales and use tax, the lodging,

Tax, property tax, and real estate tax had potential to be used to fund transit.

For each of the localities, we know that some of the rates differ.

And so these are some of the discussion points that can be had in those working group meetings.

And if there are other sources that might be even better, those can also be brought up.

In the final report, you can look at details on some of the estimates that were calculated on how much can be generated by locality for each of these funding sources as well.

This is a summary for the potential revenue that we saw.

So to round up our next steps, we are hoping that this study is just the beginning of several more discussions and more engagement that can be had across the region.

We are hoping that the next steps of setting up that working group can be implemented as quickly as possible so that the momentum can be kept up.

And so continue the discussions with all the

Localities and Stakeholders, set up the volunteer group, and establish CARTA.

These steps, they are low hanging fruit that can be implemented in a relatively short time to continue the momentum.

But that is the end of my presentation now.

The final report for this study has many more details on each of the topics discussed.

And I believe that you can find that also on the TJPDC website.

At this point, I can take any questions.

Thank you very much, Stephanie.

And we really appreciate you and your team's work, working with us on this.

As she said, she's willing to take some questions.

Yes?

Hello, yeah, thank you for your presentation.

On the last couple of slides when you were talking about revenue, there was taxes listed, but there were no user fees.

Do you mean, just to make sure I understand your question, do you mean user fees in terms of the cost for service, like fare, cost for fares?

So, well, we know that

Generally, rider fares are not a significant portion of the cost for running transit.

They usually pay for a very, very little piece of the revenue for an entire agency.

And that is just known fact across the country.

In the Charlottesville region, there is some services also have no rider fees for now.

And so if

If those policies would need to be reversed if we want to look at that, I believe there's some, I don't want to make the wrong, it's either CAT or Jaunt has some services that are fare-free.

So like I said before, because of the contribution, the percentage that it would provide for the overall cost of running the service, it was not included here.

But if that is something that

can be that the localities or stakeholders think need to be reviewed in terms of the policy.

On a good year, we're clearing 300 to 400 thousand dollars.

That's a single digit, five, six percent.

I'm sorry, I dealt with that.

On a good year, we're collecting 400, you know, 300 to 400 thousand.

That's, our fare box recovery ratio is what it's called.

The single digits is probably six, seven percent, which is terrible.

Training agencies that charge looking at close to 18 to 18 percent.

We're not even close to that.

That's more than it's intended.

15 to 20 percent.

It's not, but it's, you know, in the brands, how much it costs us.

Well, there was no push to raise

Because of that, it's always going to cost us more to run the system than to do that.

Unless there's appetite to raise that rate.

If we raise higher rates than John can raise on the ADA side, to double out there, which means they were only carefully able to charge $1.50 for an ADA ride, and we were charging $7,000.

So it's, in the grand scheme,

It costs more to collect than... Yeah, I would really emphasize we're through Garland Head, which is, you know,

Collecting $3,000 or maybe it cost you that much or more to get the $3,000 and to track it and extra admin, extra human beings, all that, it would not be a, it's just what you have to say.

Having had the pleasure of being a part of so many city council budget work sessions during the time where affairs were debated, even the temperature shift of the panel to go to a dollar for 75 cents was pretty much dead on arrival every single time.

So, and I think if I can today, and I would just segue into my question about the power of some particular sensitivity

and dollars.

I'm just wondering why these amounts were selected.

Greg, you know, for example, you know, show me what opinions were in every locality on the real estate tax.

Not $0.10, because $0.10 is like not real world thinking.

You know, I just, I'm just wondering what the decision, you know, the decisioning was around these figures.

Were you trying to get certain numbers?

So I don't know if I heard very well, but I wanted to just make sure I understood your question, is looking at some of the estimates for the projections, why those percentages were chosen, and not showing, linking it directly to the amount of service that will be provided.

Not exactly.

Real estate, right?

I could tell you that the city's real estate tax generates something like $1.08, $1.11 billion for every penny on the rate, right?

And so why are we jumping to this, like,

Why not message it that way in the smallest increments possible?

I just think

Yeah.

Oh, no.

Scott, you might like to answer.

I was just going to add, I can say specifically to the sales tax is just based on precedent, so that is what had happened at the end of the 40s when we used that as the anchor.

A point well received on the real estate tax and that the smallest payment was probably the best way to then scale that up and down.

So I take that as a suggestion.

I think it really was just a number and an anger to start the discussion.

This report wasn't really going to get at what those percents were going to be.

Correct.

So those percentages were selected, like Christine said, as an anchor.

We were looking at what had been done in other areas, like for Richmond or for the Hampton Roads areas, and just using those figures as a starting point.

Since these were to identify how much could be generated, but what would go into a proposal for the legislation would need much more detailed

Financial Analysis.

While Stephanie is still here, because this is the last time we're going to have the opportunity to chat with Stephanie, I just want to make sure, are there any other questions around the table for Stephanie about the report?

And then I have a suggestion for the group.

You mentioned that the RTA would prioritize projects.

Ideally, the board of the authority would be elected representatives from each of the localities.

We also mentioned having that technical input from the existing bodies in the region, such as the MPO or DRPT or even TJPDC.

And so those advisory bodies would have input on the planning for transit projects in the region.

And so in a way, they're all working together.

If I could also chime in, one of the roles of the MPO is to prioritize infrastructure improvement projects.

Part of that is also coordinating with the service providers.

We'll make sure that that's incorporated into the planning process.

But the service operations and the prioritization of service changes is kind of a different process outside of the long-range transportation plan.

The municipalities also in Albemarle County sets priorities for smart scale funding, et cetera, et cetera.

How would that work with an RTA?

I think it would come down to votes, right?

Well and in a way we're used to those processes in my head now.

We work together through the MPO and we're prioritizing projects now through that process.

So I see us being able to do that and I see my acknowledge is it.

Make sure I'm thinking about this right.

And so the people that are appointed to that, the various groups for the Coalition of the Willing, I guess, would have a work plan and set priorities and

I'm just saying I come from a system that actually transitioned to, GRT transitioned to having a transit authority that takes the funding.

Any other questions or comments to Stephanie?

This might be for the RTP, not for Stephanie.

Forgive me for just joining in the last couple of months.

So the Central Virginia authority is a transportation authority, not a transit authority.

This is a question that's come up throughout and the study that was done back in 2008 was solely around coordinating transit and then as the RTP came about it was also to find a solution to transit.

This is never, at least the inclination of this has never been about greater transportation planning and much of the discussions that have occurred are talking about the scale of funding

Thank you.

Any other questions?

I would like you to help us understand how we should be using some of the national peers that have been identified as we think about them.

So your question is, how do we use some of the findings from the peers, the national peers, and how do we apply that to the context here?

Is that correct, in the Charlottesville area?

Yes.

So I think some of the key things that we identified from

From there were interesting discussion points as we continued to chat with the stakeholders.

So you mentioned the Blacksburg example, for instance, and I'm sure everyone would love if UVA decided to do the same as Virginia Tech, but it probably would not, but it still gave us the starting point to chat with them about what their role could potentially be here.

If we are talking about creative ways to contract with other entities that we may not necessarily look at to generate some form of additional funds, that creative funding, that's where we looked at some of the contracts with the different apartment complexes or housing complexes.

One of I think the more interesting

Findings would be how the with the regions that started as separate entities but ended up working together as a combined authority those ones provided better direction on what it would look like for this region to move forward in that so for example one of the peers had

A situation where they had two separate entities, but as they continued to coordinate more on administrative as well as service, moved into a building together, started sharing some of those administrative functions.

We could look at what could that look like in this region in Region 10.

After a couple of years of working side by side in the same building, they decided to integrate more and more functions and then becoming one consolidated

agency.

And so I think with some of those examples, it gives the guidance on how we can move from where we are today to the future state that we want, whether we want to leapfrog from where we are now to one authority, or we want to go in stages of

Setting something up now, looking at what that looks like with the existing operators.

How do we deal with the funding we currently generate that comes from the federal or the state sources?

How do we want to consolidate that to make sure that everything is streamlined?

Or do we want to continue the processes we have now?

So I think those are some of the areas that we could focus on.

One is to check an assumption.

If CARTA was formed, the RTP would fold, disband.

And those decisions would have to be made, yeah.

And that's a good jumping off point because

The RTP was established with the intent of moving eventually to an authority.

We all recognize that transit in this community is not working for everybody and we certainly had struggles.

We also recognize that in order to build a robust

and the localities cannot continue to take the money for transit from their operational, because if we continue to do that, we're not gonna have a world-class transit system.

So the way to get at funding for transit in our community is to form an authority.

And so we're at that tipping point right now with the good work of Stephanie and her team

and all of the work that's happened around this table for the last year, what, four years?

Maybe five years.

Anyway, we're at the point where I think decisions can be made to move us forward towards, hopefully, an authority.

Hard to say at this point.

So I guess what I'm saying is that it's time to start that process.

And I hope that folks around this table will agree.

And with that,

I would like to request that the staff from the City of Charlottesville and the staff from Albemarle County and TJPDC begin preliminary discussions about the formation of a Regional Transit Authority that would include discussions of bylaws, engagement with potential partners, agencies, and the structure

That staff would be meeting over the next 90 days and come back to us within 90 days with recommendations.

If you look at, and the reason I'm suggesting that it's the city and the county states, if you look at the document in your packet that we have that's Appendix F, our charge is we will create

It says on page 2, and this is a great document for everybody to pull out and read at some point, but it says, the City of Charlottesville and the County of Albemarle shall be the initial members of the Authority upon adoption of an approving ordinance or resolution by each of their respective governing bodies.

So that's the place that we need to get to.

We as a board here, as a

As a board setup as we are right now, we can't do that.

Diantha, that text you read is from the Carter legislation.

It is.

That was approved back in 2008.

Yes.

It's right.

It's COVID-19.

And I would like to just maybe throw it off.

To the stem and getting together?

Yeah, it actually stems kind of well from the last question that was asked, you know, is because, you know, certainly I don't see a future where there's an RTA and an RTP side by side.

But you can see the RTA creating subcommittees like Citizen Advisory and other stakeholders that are advising the RTA.

So I think there's a way to do that.

I would agree that I think the next steps to keep it moving is to get staff in a room and start digging in the details.

I think we've all been kind of at a point where we're ready to do that, pushing up on sleeves.

We needed to see this process through and this study completed.

And the staffs will be coming back to this group and eventually we're going to have to have resolutions that will go to Charlottesville City Council and Almonte-Adler City Council for approval to actually move the authority into place.

And we know that

We're going to probably need, I guess, Christine, I would call them some changes, some small changes to our authority that the state has given us.

And we want to be ready for the next legislative session.

Because if we miss the next legislative session next January, we're waiting another year.

So again, we'll do the work this morning, this summer, this fall, and be prepared to present to our legislators what we're thinking

And we have to figure out that government's model and where the money is going to come from.

We can't go to the legislature.

Legislators will just say, we want an authority, but we have no idea what we're doing.

So we have to have that handed out.

I said to Mike's point, is this report just going to stay here rather than going to city, county, publicly, and potentially frighten people before we make a case for it with this 10 cent increase?

Curious.

It's somewhat public because we're a public body already.

I hear Mr. Murphy's point.

To me, I look at this, and it's just data.

But I'm not going to go back to that.

It's not a prescription, as far as I can tell.

They've already seen it.

But not in a public forum where the public digests it.

I'm not suggesting behind stuff from the public.

Now, having said that, this final draft has not been preserved.

The language here is important.

This was a discovery process, and this is data.

Those tables are not recommendations.

It's not coming out saying you should do a 0.7% increase or a raise consent.

It's saying, here is an anchor.

If you did this, this is what it would generate.

And then the discussions have to happen on what is feasible, what's realistic.

Well, yeah, and the reason that the 90 days was determined, the way we came up with the 90 days when we were thinking about wanting to make this happen, we're both Charlottesville and Albemarle localities with a double double cycle.

No, those that work in local government, the board members that support that function and we work to provide them with that information, it's just a pretty labor-intensive process right now.

And it could be that we get, we're able to frame out what the important discussion points are, be able to do some drafting, and it may not be a fully completed process, but we at least identify what are the big, the important discussion points that we need to have.

Is the process working about

taking the board direction for staff meeting.

Typically that counts through a board meeting with a consensus of the board.

Should that be a step forward to meeting us?

And sometimes, you know, as boards pour out the activities, it can come up in that framework, or?

I don't have any problem.

We've been talking about this internally for a long time.

There's consensus, I think, not on all the specifics, but at least the general idea.

I don't have any problem asking Sam Sanders to at least begin this process of a discussion.

Yeah, you too.

And we could do that forever, but I would say that Sam was talking at the chamber meeting about the media to an authority.

I know that Jeff Richardson and Sam had been talking about this and had identified the folks that they knew should be in the table.

So I am circling our board in the supervisor's role.

Well, we haven't written anything

So I don't have any problem with if there's consensus around the board.

Now we can go back.

And it does say, after when I just read about city agencies in the county, the initial members of the authority from adoption,

Adoption of Approving Ordinance and Resolution.

Then the next item down says, Counties of Savannah, Green, Louisa, Nelson, they join the authority and the authority should at home.

And that would be the next step.

So part of our work is to use this process would be talking to the surrounding counties and UVA.

We could certainly go back and work with Supervisor McKeel to inform our board of the work and that those in Charlottesville could inform their board as well.

You know, you're making the recommendations out to your governing boards, but we're also taking it back to the planning commission.

Yes.

So ultimately, the commission also has to accept this report and then have consensus that they want the PDC to continue investing resources and staff funding into this process.

And I will say, my understanding is, because you cannot talk several times about funding for your own support of this work.

And for right now, it's not going to require an additional funding

Yeah, one of the differences is we will no longer have DRPT grant funding to support.

If this is not helpful, we still need to be quiet.

Knowing that it is a study, to Mr. Murphy's point, it's not

This is just the next step along our four or five year journey that we've had towards an authority and we're taking each step at a time, thinking it through, working out with our community and with ours.

And just so that, I guess to pare it back, the idea of this working group would really be able to

And I would like at some point for this group, if in fact when the recommendations come back to us, that perhaps there would be a draft

of the resolution that we would need to take to our governing bodies.

That might be one charge that we would have.

Well I mean frankly our budget is like 20% messaging document, 80% budget, right?

Well, if people are concerned about the point one, I guess you could ask me to propose a quick amendment to the document.

I think it's reasonable for us to, 90 days is not a long time.

you know there's a lot going on in the next 90 days so I want to be not over-promising something I think it's going to require a series of meetings across those 90 days even to read all of the staff or whomever is going to be involved into this process certainly folks have been at the table along the way but we've got new people at the table we've got new directors so I think it's going to take a little bit just to get us there I think it's reasonable to have

A list of here are the things that we need to do next.

I think 90 days is a check in of we're continuing to work on this.

We are moving this ball forward.

I don't know that we're going to come back with.

I think a draft resolution makes sense.

And at the end of the day, everything will go back to the Board of Supervisors.

We are an advisory board here.

Stephanie, give me a little feedback of what you are experiencing when you talk to the rural counties of Atlanta, Albemarle, Nelson, and Louisa.

What were their reactions?

Yes.

So we had several rounds of discussions with the rural localities and some of the concerns they raised was the first one was needing to better understand the transit needs in their areas.

They felt like they didn't quite know how much service they needed and if the improvements that were even suggested by the vision study, that is increasing service to seven days a week,

increasing the number of hours that the service was running throughout the week and adding different routes within the localities and then also connecting to the urban areas.

They wanted to understand how they would benefit from those additional routes.

And that's what led to the recommendation of having that rural needs assessment.

Some wanted to even know the

People within their localities that use transit, they wanted to feel like if they were going to contribute to this new authority that we're getting, what was best for their residents.

And so there was a lot of hesitation in making any official promises, but they are interested in being part of the discussion as it continues to evolve.

But before they make any

I like the way the enabling legislation is set up with the really Albemarle and Charlottesville being the shell and the rural localities being an invitation.

So like as far as the initial process there's like a standing up the entity process and there's a building a business plan which is a much harder piece and I could imagine the rural localities also wanting to participate some in the development of the entity but much more on the business plan piece of it and

And certainly, and we could get the authority going, to be honest with you, and they could join at different times, even, as they felt like it

Absolutely.

And I'll just say briefly, I support the direction that this is going.

It's logical.

It makes sense that this way you start in the center and work your way out.

OK, all right.

Yes, let's take that as a lesson.

And if people aren't prepared to, you know, if people feel like they, I don't know, I think that we should endorse this.

I think that we just need to, as Christine outlined, we're going to get some kind of a product in 90 days, not a full-blown one to be able to go forward with legislation.

And it's an endorsement.

It's not signing one of the dotted lines.

The next step towards an authority to see where it takes us and we're going one step at a time and we're following what is in state code that we need to do and when we need to do it.

So I have a motion, I have a second.

Can I, Hal second it.

Can I just have a voice vote of all those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Any abstentions?

I have a question for the process.

Did you see me as the winner of this offer to work for these types of things?

I think it would be good, I think it would be reasonable to put that together to help scope this.

Identify obstacles, challenges, and engagement.

I don't know what it would look like, but knowing that the budget's going to run out and then you're going to have a year with no money.

And the other question, just because a big part of my job is reporting back to 25 CAA partners and all of their stakeholders, people are going to ask, OK, now what's the timeline?

Well, for months, we were going to need to know the general standpoint.

Next session.

Yeah, I mean, certainly the ambitious goal would be to get it before General Assembly this session.

I think we have also, most of the people in this room understand it might take more than one bite at the apple to be successful.

So does that GA deadline include the business plan piece or just establishing the organization with its bylaws and all that?

It's included GA deadlines for freezing the moon, like getting authority for bonds.

I see, okay, got it.

So those are our two pieces, right?

So then, like, the getting to work might wait till the next session.

Does that help?

Yep.

That's good.

Perfect.

Thank you.

I thought that there's a long way to go.

How do I direct this to people with more expertise in our group here with other regional hands over here?

I would think that if we went to them without that, they would have said, well, and then we started asking them questions.

They would have said, well, we don't have to go to them.

They would have said, well, we don't have to go to them.

Because it is time.

You know I'm your official health paper, so I want to just leave this all in my head.

Well, that's tempting.

If you're offered.

All right, and a good point was brought up to be, Stephanie, are you still there?

We want to make sure that we're moving on to the next item.

Sometimes, we don't mean to forget people and to apologize, but we really appreciate your help, and you probably hadn't, it was probably interesting for you to listen to our discussion.

So we're pleased that you spent, and thank you very much for your help.

Sorry, I couldn't hear you correct very well, but I think the gist of it, thank you very much again.

It was a wonderful.

All right, thank you.

Okay, so is there a consensus then to ask

Jen to come back at our next meeting.

She has graciously agreed to do that in Auburn.

So we change the agenda and move this item to our next agenda.

Thank you very much.

We really appreciate it.

We hope you enjoyed the discussion.

Then I'm going to move on to our transit provider updates.

You are on first, and that's not fair, because this is your first report out.

I don't mind.

You sure?

So I can just tell you what I'm thinking.

If you need something, some additional information, please feel free to ask.

So what's of interest is our electric buses.

So we have four in play right now.

And they are kind of tethered to our urban ring.

I did look today and we have accumulated 24,000 miles of usage out of those units and we're estimating because our software has some glitches in it right now that's tracking our kilowatt hour usage.

So we're estimating our fuel consumption at about $7,800 for those models.

and if we just did a quick comparison back to diesel and that would cost us per gallon so that would be about $13,000 so there's some savings from the fuel perspective but there are other costs associated with electric buses that you know we haven't realized yet.

One of those being the annual service requires a kit

That's about $2,000 per bus for that annual maintenance and we still have to go through every 45 day service, which is much less than what we do on the diesel bus.

So we're still getting to know those units and they're still, they're starting to learn us.

One of the biggest challenges we've had is with the 12 volt charging system.

As we've heard on the news with

Tesla, they've taken some hits on the low temps and when that 12 volt system is not working, the batteries don't charge.

And we had that issue several times and so that's something that we're going back to our OEMs and saying you need to implement that design feature in future models.

So we're doing a work around now.

We had that happen just this week

And we have a lot of those temperature warnings.

We do.

Right, right.

So we're getting a lot of positive feedback from staff.

They love the buses.

It's even impacting student management.

The buses are being a lot quieter than our diesel units.

The drivers are able to redirect verbally much better when there's units.

That's where we are with electric.

Our staffing, we're still recruiting, we're still

We are managing to cover all of our routes now, but that's through utilization of all of our resources.

So we don't even have a projection because we have consolidated routes since COVID so drastically.

We don't really have a projection of what staff would look like, but we are still aggressively

recruiting and we're seeing a much lower level of interest from advocates.

Can I ask a quick question?

Sure.

So we've had

So our last unit just went into play less than 30 days ago.

Our first unit has been in play for 11, maybe 12 months.

Thanks.

Are there any other questions for William about this?

Hey William, did you say that the buses are not

Tell me more about this low-volt issue.

So two separate charging systems, right?

So the 12-volt battery is just like the battery in your car or in our diesel buses.

They are not connected to the charging infrastructure that runs the bus, right?

And so when temperatures drop and those buses are sitting just like this weekend or over a weekend,

That 12 volt, when it drops voltage, it automatically kicks off the charging.

And is the solution to, I'm just curious, is the solution software related?

So the 12-volt system is not connected to anything except communication, right?

And so those two systems have to be, so the

The batteries that drive the bus, they can only drop to 85%, or we can only use 85%.

That last 15% is left in reserve.

It will kick the charging off if we drop below that.

And who's the manufacturer that's here?

Yeah, so they're first in.

Bluebird has been around for a while with electric, but they have not been a supplier choice.

Kingmore is just coming online, the IC bus is just coming online, and there's some other vendors

It is interesting, I found it amazing that when I took a ride around an electric bus in Monroe County in the urban area, the driver said to me what she said, I love these electric buses and people.

And it's counterintuitive.

You know, you think, well, why the world?

But, and you point that out, too.

So that's held up.

And a lot of it all has to do with the driver.

The driver, you know, kind of sets the tone for me.

It's interesting.

Yeah.

Any other questions for one?

Is that it?

Oh, you were walking ahead of it.

We actually have a freer agenda now than we did, so if you want to take a little bit more time.

That's all I have.

OK. All right.

Then, Scott, you want to?

Well, both of the items I think I addressed last week are still

We are still in the process for renewing our transit vehicle tracking software system.

Nothing really I can share on where we land on that.

So that's still underway and then I think that your question led me to kind of reveal that we had with the Proterra bankruptcy canceled the contract and so we are

Moving ahead, we are looking at all of our options and doing calls to other providers, other schools that have electric buses, other schools that have received grant funding to do it.

And so sort of everything's in play right now.

Our charging system is not quite yet fully in place.

It will be very soon though, I'm being told.

I might have said that last month as well, but we're getting there.

Right now I parked our two Chevy Volts that our department owns in there to sort of say, we're ready to use it guys.

Is there any conversations?

I mean, we're talking alternate fuels next week.

Any conversations you all might could have or have had about having some compatibility about loose charging?

I assume that these charging devices are stealth or tailored or unique enough that it's per bus type, I guess?

So to answer the first part of your question, once we get direction from council, we can have a robust conversation with the other providers.

So once we have that direction, if the direction is to go one way or the other, and if it's more on the battery electric side, I think it's very appropriate to have a conversation specifically with UTS.

The charging for big buses is much different than charging for smaller vehicles.

We're two different types of buses.

No, we run the same type of big buses.

We actually both run bigs.

So that's not to say we both want to buy, really.

So there's a lot of decisions that have to be made.

Once we have a direction, but it's also charging, a full charge is between five and three hours.

Fast charging means that that time can have a normal time.

So there still has to be,

I don't know in terms of routes and so it would be cool if your guys were running low and they were

For sure.

And I think, but we also, I wasn't here for that, and even in the last two years when it was done, this had changed.

What we did, we compared the providers in 2021 and 2022 through CalSTART, which is an organization that does the sort of, they did the modeling,

based on the battery sizes, the charging infrastructure, our routes, our specific routes, terrain, and then models.

Now, as I said to our sustainability committee yesterday at UVA, that was modeling.

We're desperate to really see a bus operate one of our routes and get real experience.

So trying to make lemonade out of the lemons of canceling our Proterra

No, they're all the same.

In fact, they're the same.

The plug is, what's different is the plug.

300-amp cable.

It's like a snake.

Oh, it's the size of the buses.

I got it.

I think the point that he made is, which is what we were trying to express is, the testing is really important before we spend a lot of money.

and talking with my counterparts around the country, there are issues, even with the bigger losses, at 187 degrees and below.

For some reason, that's a magic number.

There are causing some issues in certain places.

We want to be able to test and see how it applies here, but there are other ways for Charlottesville and this region to get to zero emissions, and that is our goal, besides just the average American.

There are systems around the country who have been doing other products for decades.

The products, other products work.

We just have to be, we have to be mindful of what we want to do.

And if we're gonna go one direction or the other, there's a lot of time, energy, and construction costs associated with both models.

We will have availability in getting some grant, but that is not, that's a drop in the money.

And I don't want to start rumors here, but.

So I think the city council

and videos from Shenandoah, Urbana, System, University of Illinois, and they are, they've been doing battery electric and hydrogen for a decade now.

And they are just giving it to the next generation of hydrogen.

And the federal government, the actual administrative for FTA actually was there

Based off of what we were talking earlier about messaging, just messaging in general, when you say zero emissions, zero emissions, but zero emissions goals, we have to remember that if we're plugging something in, it's not zero emissions until the data's 100% renewable.

And I would like to say adding on that the zero gives you zero emissions.

If we're adding, which we would probably have to do, a heater, that's a deep in to make sure that we don't drain the battery power.

We're not as cold as we used to be, but we're still too cold for what you're doing.

Yeah, I got it.

OK, we're going to comment about this.

If not, then I'll move this.

Scott, thank you very much.

I'll move this on.

So I'll start with schools first.

We've been working with them to see if there's an appetite to just do a pilot

We're going to put in a grant submission working with the Office of Sustainability to make that model happen.

So that's progress.

On the transit side- Hey Garland, before you move on,

I'm working with some high school kids that are following this issue.

Pilot, so let's see if we can get in.

Okay, thank you.

What we're working on right now is pulling together the frames.

It's a grant application that happened within a year.

If we're successful, we will be granted two.

It's actually Office of Sustainability in conjunction with CAT.

Yeah.

Alright, so transit, Tuesday next week we're having our follow-up to our alternative fuel study recommendations.

At that point, you'd see a jump rule, we'll have to have an opportunity to hear from the Office of Sustainability and they put it

They're getting a number of services.

They'll actually be at the table.

Just wanted to make sure we get this out.

This is not getting an effort just like that.

This is going to have a lot of multiple city agencies looking at how do we get these direct issues.

So I think it's making sure that all multiple parties have the ability to kind of weigh in and make sure that all parties understand where we are in this model.

and make sure we present all of the facts and all of the information that City Council would like to have.

The goal for this would be to allow City Council to ask for your questions again, get all the information, and hopefully come out of there with an opportunity to be a head of government to either tell us

It ties together so we can't complete the strategic plan without the direction of the council about these vehicles.

That part is in the strategic plan.

Once we finish that component though, it allows us to chart our path through the transit strategic plan that is not set in stone.

We do have the ability to make any

And I would say we're a little different than DDA.

They did not have to do the study.

They don't take that amount because you've got a lot of freedom.

We have to use that, which is, I don't know, the slow roll is we have not.

We have done everything we have required of you by staying on phase to make sure that we are on line and making sure that we are taking all the accounts in place and then get to the transition point for the next year and a half.

I think we have a fair contract with the amalgamated training between the city manager, the city council over there, the three private units, the actual language of the contract.

I believe that for our first contract,

And I have a quick question just because there is a bill in the General Assembly that would cut out the bureaucracy for the localities to be able to place bus shelters at bus stops.

Do you remember that legislation?

That is now more important.

Last night I heard you pass the House.

Yeah, it's in the Senate Appropriations.

Right.

It makes it a more permanent solution.

That's wonderful.

To follow up to that, both of you saw the collective bargaining, and my understanding, because I only wrote this in the media, the council, maybe the elected officials have to answer this, now have to honor that contract in the budget, or if they can find money.

So there's still room or need for advocating for that to get in the budget?

By citizens, I have people asking about that.

I think that's a perfectly fine thing to do, yes.

And thank you for that.

We're all keeping an eye on it.

And it is supported by ERPT, I believe.

That's what I've done.

Thank you.

All right.

Colin, you're good.

Okay.

Moving on to Mike.

Well, okay.

Carla's news is news for everybody who's in transit, so I'm going to add something that we're watching carefully and responding to drive your comments on.

Maybe responding to public comments that are not entirely in keeping with real life events, but we'll cover that with the council soon I'm sure.

I'm hoping that by next time we're here together that the rural transit needs assessment will improve a little bit.

We continue to work on microtransit and hopefully Garland can join one of our meetings because if it's all for us to talk about zones, it would be logical to kind of augment where our services are today.

A little bit of a discussion in that meeting today about whether some of our

The best opportunities are to do curb-to-curb to get people to our commuter services.

I'm torn about that.

So we'll talk more and I'll have an update next month of course.

On the electrification in Johnson, Albemarle,

Studies or Grant Opportunities, so the BEV implementation grant with AECOM is now being coordinated with the award that Virginia and Virginia Power have, which is great.

They've got them all on the same call together.

And I will say,

You know, both of them are looking at ways to site the charging infrastructure, not just at depots, but out into the communities and rural locations.

It does tickle me that the woman from Virginia Power refers to it as, well, we want them to be out in the wild.

So I love it so much.

I think the other really interesting thing, you know, we had a visit from three reps from Dominion, and we spent most of the evening not talking about the federal grant projects, but about all the programs Virginia Power already offers that we might be leveraging in the make-ready infrastructure, right?

You know, everything from their

their wires until you get to the plug.

I think there's tremendous opportunity potentially for Jaunt and other folks there.

It does come with an assessment and perhaps a tenured contract afterward, but the terms seem fair since you're saving 50% on the infrastructure as well.

It has some potential.

I think that there's an opportunity

And then I think lastly, this needs some very quick assessment, but it's contacted by the Virginia Tech Transportation Institute or Transit Institute.

They are trying to respond to a NOFO of $15 million six-year plan, looking at the concept of

Rural Transit with Automated Vehicles.

So we'll see about that.

But it is interesting that that is in the works.

Maybe it seems more reasonable.

You know, in some of the electrification, it seems like the various processes are disjointed as far as when you can get the capital, when you can be charged, and when you can get the actual equipment in.

This may have a timeline that's more thoughtful and makes it a hospital to reconsider.

Well, Jim, that kind of makes everything interesting.

Thanks, Colin.

I don't think there's any real updates on terms of ongoing projects right now.

Anything you can share from the General Assembly?

Because I know you all are always into it.

I don't have any real updates right now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I agree.

That actually might be it.

Brian, why don't you all shake?

Be good.

Let's just see if we can pencil that in.

Okay.

Anything else?

Anybody have any questions?

Okay.

All right.

We are on to other business.

I have one item that I want to mention for you, and then I'll open it up so anybody else has anything.

There is, I believe, a conflict with the main meeting, Christine, and the reason is because there is a transit conference.

Is that correct?

That still is correct.

So I'm just letting folks know that my assumption is that we'll be canceling the main meeting so that folks can go to the transit conference.

That, in my head, I'm just saying, that when we talk about our 90 days, this is going to probably give a little bit more time for that 90 days just because having said that, there's lots of things that we could be doing and we're excited

So I guess it's okay that we can just on our calendars cancel out.

I'll get Lucinda to send a cancellation for the May meeting if that works.

Or should we hold it in place in case there's an emergency?

I'm always just asking.

Brian Pinkston, they have a free evening.

And I don't have any other business.

Yes.

It's not a business and doesn't allow a voting thing.

It's just something cool that I saw.

I was down in Lynchburg last week, and I went to the year bus stop, and they have a little solar panel, like tablets, basically, that say when things are coming.

and it was slick and small and just by a company called ConnectPoint and looked them up.

Seemed like that's their thing is solar powered signage for transit and I figured this would be the group of people who might be interested in that sort of thing.

Well why don't you share them out?

Send them to Lucinda and she can share them with us.

All right, any other comments, questions?

All right, well hearing no objections, it's 5 of 6.

And that will be March 28th, same time, same place.