City Council   11/15/2019

Good morning.

Thank you all for being here.

We really appreciate the Abrahamson family traveling from Idaho to be here today.

And we really appreciate the chief and members of the Monacan Indian Nation for being here with us today to have this conversation.

And we really appreciate all you for taking time out of your morning to join us.

When we started this discussion again, because it's been had before, one thing that we wanted to make sure of is that we heard the perspective of indigenous families and members of our local communities also.

It is often when you're making decisions, which in this case we're talking about whether the statue that's on West Main Street stays in place, whether it's removed, whether it's just shifted, and if so, just the beginning of a conversation about what does true honor look like.

And I don't think there's anyone better to tell you

what honoring a group of people means other than the people themselves and the descendants of those people and oftentimes we find ourselves in positions where we think that we know enough to make those decisions for other people and as we discussed or heard a little bit outside about balance we've been out of balance in this community for a long time

We're usually having that conversation just in terms of black and white, but that imbalance started way before the discussions that we're usually talking about.

And from the historical perspective, just understanding and honoring us as being one people

is an issue that we have suffered from under colonization and primarily white rule.

And when we start having these discussions about what does healing look like, what can remain in place, what symbols can tell our story,

and dictate the journey that we continue, it's often led from a very white perspective.

And we have been in this place of, I think, constant chaos because we haven't been open to making sure that we hear from individuals who are the most important ones in making decisions like this.

So my hope for today is that

We shift more as a community into that place of where we can find true balance and that we're not holding on to misconceptions and misinformation in the past that we have in the past and that we're open

to maybe a new to a new way and if that means that statues for some that represents great art and one of you know the finest pieces ever to been sculpted doesn't tell the story of

the indigenous people then those in positions of power who found themselves able to lead those discussions in the past hopefully today you will be open to listening and for us as a community having again difficult uncomfortable conversations about what that shift looks like.

So again, thank you all for being here and we really appreciate it.

And now we'll just go around and I'll start and just introduce ourselves so you'll know who's in the room.

I'm Nikuyah Walker, the mayor of the city.

Mike Signer, member of City Council.

Due to some scheduling issues, I'm going to have to leave right after lunch, but I'm really glad that you all are here.

I'm Chief Kenneth Branum.

I'm from the Monacan Indian Nation.

I want to welcome you all to our country.

And I'm Birdie Brown.

Hello everybody.

My name is Willow Abrahamson.

I am also the daughter of Rose Ann Abrahamson and I am also the last Lemhi born in the homelands of Sacatawea and I am also a familial descendant.

My name is Emma George.

And this is the second time that some of you have traveled to have this discussion.

Again, I'm Chief Kenneth Brown.

I'm of the Monacan Indian tribe at headquarters about 60 miles south of here down 29.

This is the, I know that at least two times that your people have been here.

I was involved with the Lewis and Clark expedition when they redid it.

back in 2002 and we hosted it for a week here in Charlottesville.

But I did meet some of your people once before when we were doing something with the statue.

I think we put a plaque there.

Again, I welcome you all to Monacan Country.

We just received federal recognition back in 2018 so we're a little new in the federal part of it but we're very old in the native part of it and our headquarters is in Amherst County and if any of you get down in Amherst County we'd love to show you around and show you our small museum and teach you a little about our people.

Thank you.

Good morning everyone.

Welcome to Virginia again.

My name is Jeff Warner.

I'm the city's Historic Preservation and Design Planner and I was asked to just offer some brief comments on the history of the statue and I know when you all came in in 2009 you worked with Mary Joy and the Historic Resources Committee and some of those folks are here.

today.

So the statue, which is entitled The First View of the Pacific, was sculpted by Charles Keck in 1919.

It was donated to the city by Paul Quidlow McIntyre.

The statue depicts Meriwether Lewis, William Clark,

and Sakajawea, their Shoshone Indian Guide, and commemorates the U.S. government's overland expedition to the Pacific Coast.

Sculptor Charles Keck was a well-respected artist of the time.

He was known for monumental sculptures and portrait busts.

In 1996, the statue was listed on the Virginia Landmarks Register.

In 1997, it was listed on the National Register of Historic Places.

In 2017, West Main Street Historic District was established and added to the Virginia Landmarks Register and the National Register with the statue identified as a contributing element.

In 2006, the City established the locally designated Downtown Architectural Design Control District, which includes this section of West Main Street.

However, the statue was not designated as a contributing structure.

In 2007, the Coalition of Local Residents appealed to City Council to address the issue of Sacajawea's depiction on the statue.

Council directed the Historic Resources Committee to devise language for a marker to be placed at this site.

After consulting with multiple individuals, including Rosina George and Emma George, both descendants of Sachika Weah, the committee purchased a 12 inch by 16 inch bronze marker and with the following text.

Sakajawea.

This plaque is dedicated to Sakajawea whose contribution of traditional and cultural knowledge with courage and bravery earned her recognition in the chronicles of American history.

Sakajawea was a Lemhi Shoshone

Aguy Dica, born in Salmon, Idaho, in 1788.

She was the only female to travel on the long arduous journey with the Lewis and Clark Expedition of 1805 to 1806.

Sacajawea served as an ambassador bridging relations amongst nations.

Her contribution to the people of today and the future generations can be identified as a symbol of unity and peace for all people.

And the plaque is finished with Rosina George and Emma George, great, great, great nieces of Sacajawea, March 2008.

and I think there's one more.

And on June 19th, 2009, the marker was unveiled in a ceremony that included members of the Monacan Nation and the Lemhi Shoshone Tribe, including descendants of Sacajawea.

Good morning.

I am one of the project managers for the West Main Street Skate Project.

And for those that don't live here, this is imagined as a street skate project where we are taking the existing right of way.

We are reallocating it so that we provide a better pedestrian experience.

We're moving a little bit of the parking, making sure we have safe intersections for everyone.

Good bike lanes.

This corridor connects from the west.

The University of Virginia travels through the center of town and connects to downtown.

And at the eastern end is the area that we're talking about, and it is the statue and what we're envisioning for this intersection.

This intersection is currently five legs.

It could be a bit confusing.

We are suggesting moving the right turn lane that is to the right of the statue and moving it to the left to create a more pedestrian

Friendly Plaza, basically.

So there would be additional landscaping, more seating.

And with that, we are requesting the shift of the statue from its current location 20 feet to the southwest.

The pictures here are showing where we're envisioning the statue would need to be while we

to make all of these new design changes.

And then the next picture is a depiction of what we're expecting the overall design to be and what we're trying to accomplish.

Buena.

Greetings everyone.

Tzambaychwa.

It is a great honor to be here and what I'm going to say, I'm saying on behalf of my ancestor.

And for those of you, I would like to thank Guy Lopez and I ask you to join the Eastern Tribal Representative.

Can you please be seated there, please?

You had a vision.

You had a vision, and as a Native American living here in the East, you saw this statue for what it was.

Grace Softier, thank you for hosting us while we are here.

Mayor, thank you.

Council, thank you.

Ten years ago, I came.

Ten years ago I was here.

And before I start, and before I say what I have to say, I would like to thank my ancestors.

My mother, my father's lineage, which entrusted us with making this decision here today.

We as Agaidikas are here today.

on behalf of our familial ancestor, Sakachawea.

I'm pleased to be here along with our family to Charlottesville to discuss the statue of Lewis and Clark with the cowering and recoiling image of our ancestor, Sakachawea.

A decade ago in 2009, we came here to place a plaque on the statue to alleviate the outwardly offensive depiction.

I can say that when I saw it in person for the first time, I was very shocked.

For you see, my ancestor Sacajawea has many, many images throughout this country and throughout this nation and my family and I were able to see them firsthand.

This statue in Charlottesville was the worst we have ever seen.

We, the familial descendants and people of Sacajawea, are very pleased that you are addressing this offensive interpretation and portrayal of our ancestor.

We understand that the statue was originally made in 1919, and as we all know, it was during a time period of intolerance

misinformation, discrimination, and witless perspectives of people of color and America's indigenous peoples.

In addition, it was during a time period that governments elevated the achievements of dominant society's heroes and their histories.

In 1919, Meriwether Lewis and William Clark were Virginia's heroes, but Sacajawea was a woman and a Native American.

We do not know the artist's history and intent, but we believe it is time to put the statue where it belongs.

It belongs in a place where we can inscribe that this depiction of a woman and of Sacajawea does not hold truth today.

That it is an image of the past when women in America did not have rights and Native Americans were not recognized as citizens of the United States.

and the depiction of Sacajawea was a part of America's indifferent and heartless history.

We believe that no statue today should cause a citizen to hang their head in shame or cause a child to question their worth.

Virginia's indigenous inhabitants and America's first people

should feel united, accepted, and understood when they enter the city of Charlottesville.

We are requesting that this statue be placed in a place where it will become an object of discussion of America's intolerant past.

We understand that some places are being considered to house this statue.

So be it.

We are requesting that in its place should be a historical depiction of Sacajawea's true contributions, wisdom, and undaunted courage.

We believe that she should be placed with these two Virginians.

We believe that this combined team of two Virginian men and a Shoshone woman have shown that together as men and women we can all reach an unreachable place.

That we together

can achieve a united destiny to succeed and bring humankind together in tolerance and triumph over condescending pride.

And that we today can leave this as a lasting legacy and a teaching for our seventh generation to come.

They must never again have to hang their heads in shame.

Two years ago, the world witnessed an appalling gathering in Charlottesville.

Today, we will remember that.

We remember that blemish of that event, but we need to put it in the past where it belongs.

much like this statue and others like it.

Take it down and put it in a hall of shame of past discrimination and antipathy.

Let us for the sake of our children, our upcoming generations, show images of integrity, equity, and tolerance in our public forums.

Thank you so much Miss Abramson and what I hear is that

There is a new image to be made, a new monument to be made with the same players as the old statue but infused with new meaning and new understandings.

And I just wanted to make sure I understood that, that that is the call, not only removal

of what is there but a replacement with something else that still tells that story of that journey but in a truthful way.

Am I?

Yes.

I'm going to have, does Dina share a little bit about Sacajawea?

the role that she played in our nation's history.

Most people traditionally we've been saying Sakajawea, but Sakajawea, different names, so forth about her.

What people forget is that Sakajawea, she was a teenager.

She was a very young girl when she went on this journey with these men, with the Corps of Discovery.

This young girl

Her life, she was taken away from her home, her family, and brought somewhere alien, different, among other people, and then bartered off to a way older man.

And today's standards, you know, this is something that we wouldn't want for our child or our beloved child or anything like that.

We would make sure that they were given to someone that would take care of them.

Unfortunately, reading, if you read the journals and stuff like that, Charbonneau was not that man.

He was very abusive, treated her badly, but I can say that these

Lewis and Clark were very good men.

They tried to help her in this journey and support her even though they could see that her own husband was just not a very good husband.

But this young woman

For a younger generation, you know how we look upon her and we look upon her contribution to this nation.

It is, for as a woman and a young girl, it's inspiring.

It shows that as a young woman you can go out there and make great changes, make great contributions to our great nation here.

No matter what your background is.

She's that representation.

As for a First Nation or Indigenous person, it also confirms our upbringing and our traditions and our beliefs of always being that helping, being compassionate, and being welcoming.

and it's throughout history you've seen that with the First Nation people here in the United States with the welcoming of those that came across the great waters first.

We welcomed everybody, hospitality, and her contribution to this country was great.

Going to the West,

A party of a group of men in any other culture would be looked upon as you could say a war party.

And that core of discovery probably would have been attacked.

But just because of the presence of Sacajawea and her son, it showed to the rest of those tribes out there that this was a party that came in peace.

And that's what she represented when she came with Lewis and Clark.

and with her also her contributions of the medicines in the area, the land areas and the northwest areas of our people.

This again was also another great contribution.

But overall, in regards to the statue, this is my first time here in Charlottesville and

I can see how, as far as an indigenous person and seeing that statue, I can say for myself, just the first time I really got to see it in person, it did bring shame.

It made me feel

It made me feel sadness and worthlessness.

And that's not how it was brought up.

And so for me, it is a wrong depiction of, you know,

of Sacajawea, of who she was, but it's the wrong depiction of our indigenous women as well.

We are not brought up to be like that.

And, you know, like I said, it is a little bit, it was disturbing to me.

But as this younger generation, what my mother explained, though, is that we want to create with anything that we do and wherever we live and whatever city, especially here in Charlottesville, you want to promote that positiveness, that unity.

You know, this country was built upon, you know, great ideas, contributions from all ethnicities.

and it's that unity of these different backgrounds of these different ethnicities of people that contributed to our country that makes this country so great.

And so we want to promote our country in the best light possible and something that unifies us and I think

That statue, you know, it represents a past, which is the past.

But we need to start looking forward to a greater future.

And with Sacajawea, I mean, her history, her life,

and in reality her short life she did so much and it's how one told me it's not how long you live but how you live it and she lived it the best way she did and you know as we as a family and descendants we are so proud of her.

and for her, that's our inspiration of what we do in our lives and it's also our motivation in what we do for our own people and for our country.

Hello everybody.

I just wanted to make a few comments about that statue out there.

This also is my first time out to Charlottesville and it is also my first time viewing the statue in person.

I have seen the pictures in the past and I would like to say that I also feel the same as my older sister and my family.

I am a woman, I am an Agaidaka, and I was raised in a matriarchal matrilineal society in which the women are the people who call together your ceremonies.

The women are the people who sanction the decisions of the leadership.

The women are also the people who have that knowledge of how to take care of and how to survive.

And one of the things that I noticed in viewing the statue is it almost minimizes the great contribution that Sacajawea, my ancestor, contributed

to the pioneering of the United States of America.

It almost depicts her as if she is a subservient in a monkey position.

And one of the things I wanted to emphasize in what my older sister had explained

is that throughout Indian tribes across the nation, that would have been viewed as a war party, a group of men.

If it wasn't for Sacajawea showing Lewis and Clark how to communicate with these other tribes in a diplomatic way, I do not think they would have made it across that great journey.

There are many accounts within the journals where Sacajawea informed them of how to put the Bisha, you'll see that on us right now, the red paint.

This is protection.

This is sacredness.

This represents who we are.

When Lewis and Clark had met those

Women, that elder, the Shoshones, one of the things that they used as a protection was they put that Bisha on that elder woman.

When the Shoshones had met Lewis and Clark, by all means they would not have treated them as welcoming had those women not informed our tribal people, our leaders,

that these individuals do not mean harm.

They put a display of protection upon our heads.

They showed us that they want to protect us, that they mean no harm.

This paint is a representation of

Our spirituality of who we are, it connects us as earthly human beings with the sacredness of Mother Earth and all of the cosmos.

When Creator looks down upon us, Creator will look at us and know who we are by the red paint that we wear on our heads.

So one of the things I wanted to say is I feel

the same as my older sister, the same as my mother.

I am a mother myself.

I have a two-year-old little girl.

And one of the things that I was taught is that we must always speak the truth, whether the truth hurts

The most important thing and one of the human values across the world that we all share is the importance of integrity, the importance of truth telling, the importance of humility, the importance of kindness, the importance of love,

And I wanted to say that when I see the statue, it depicts an enslaved, subservient, almost monkey-positioned individual, when this is an individual who helped take care of a group of men.

This was a young girl.

leading a group of men across treacherous territory.

This was a young woman who knew where tribal villages were, who was raised within a leadership.

Amongst our people, our leader is our Deguani.

What that leader is like and what

The way I can explain it is, amongst the Greeks, they always had, I don't know the name of that individual, but they always had an individual who was a diplomat and who would speak for the people.

who would actually communicate with whoever the leadership was but would go out and provide that oratory, who would have that strength and that skill in establishing interpersonal relationships, knowing how to communicate with individuals of many different cultures, knowing how to communicate in such a dynamic way that they could get the point across.

So one of the things that is important to remember about our ancestor Sakachawea is that she came from one of those leadership families and amongst our people.

Your ways are passed down.

You're born into a family of either medicine people.

You're born into a family of leaders.

You're born into a family who knows how to scrape the hides and make the homes.

You're born into a family of hunters, different individuals you're raised in that way.

We all had our role in society.

And one of the things that is very important to remember and

To also show is that as an individual, as a young girl, as a teenager, she knew how to communicate and she knew where those tribal leaders were and she was raised

in how to understand and communicate those other tribes.

And that's one of the most important things that you can learn about a tribal leader is that those who were chiefs, they were actually almost like those orators

They were those who could speak.

They were those who could make people feel what they were saying in their heart.

They knew how to speak.

They knew how to talk.

They knew the values and the cultures of the other tribes.

How to go in and exactly.

How do I communicate to this group of individuals that we mean no harm?

How do we talk to these leaderships?

How do we get across this great journey in a way that brings us no harm?

and those were some of the important skills that should be recognized and displayed.

But not only that, the statue depicts our ancestor as if she was not an important role in this expedition.

It depicts our ancestor as if she was a dog going along on the trip.

And I know that there is a call out in this new generation that our leadership support human values.

Like I said, the human values of humility, the human values of kindness, of equity, of caring for one another, of not degrading one another, of not using the

I don't even know how to say this, of not exemplifying the racial imbalance.

And if you look at the time in 1919, Native Americans, indigenous people, were not viewed as human citizens.

If you ever go back and you look

at what type of communication was out there.

There were communication for scalps.

They were still trading scalps.

That's why you'll hear a lot of Indian people talk about the Redskins.

What the traders used to do, you could get money for Redskins, the bounty hunters, you could get money for Redskins.

What were the coonskins?

There were different names that they used.

So at this time in history when that statue was developed, that was a time when my people, indigenous people, were not viewed as human beings.

There was a resounding statement that went across the country by Henry Pratt.

and that statement was, kill the Indian, save the man.

Almost as if to say if you were an Indian, you were not viewed as human.

The only way you would be viewed as a human is if you became like a colonial citizen, as if to say that our culture, our language, our indigenous knowledge is nothing.

And one of the other things I would also like to say is that as a mother, I would not want for my own child or children to actually see this statue.

I haven't showed it to them.

Just because it is an inaccurate

It is a wrongful, it is a degrading, it is a dehumanizing, very upsetting depiction that almost minimizes the great contributions to this expedition that my ancestor had contributed.

I want to ask, you know, that there is a major consideration, a large consideration, that the depiction isn't displayed in such a public manner, I guess, as if to tell history.

You know, we as humankind

uphold integrity as one of the most important things.

And I feel that the statue lacks integrity.

It lacks the depiction of the values of truth telling.

It lacks the depiction of equity.

It lacks an accurate historical account, you know.

It not only is it telling a lie, but it's displaying a lie as if lies are okay.

And I'm telling you lies are not okay.

And at this day and age, I'm very proud to be a young person coming up in this day and age when there is a lot of truth telling happening, where there is a lot of

Movement towards equity, towards unity, and for upholding of the human values, whether it mean we as a society have to come together and make these changes or talk about them

I'm grateful that I am a part of this discussion in this day and age and I'm grateful to be here and share with each and every one of you the words that I have to share.

And I wanted to address the council there.

The reason that we're sharing this with you

is because we want you to see our perspectives and you were saying, are you asking for another image?

And I think it is rightfully so, but right at this moment we want to share with you this perspective so it helps us to make a better decision.

Today, I ask for clarity, for things to be right.

On behalf of my ancestor, our ancestor, Sacatawea, we wouldn't be here if it wasn't for our ancestors, and we are cognizant of them.

And that is a part of our teaching

The teachings that we hold, they've been here far before 500 years ago, before the foundation of this country.

And we hold them dear, and we are here today because of them, as our ancestor Saka Tzewiya.

Saka Tzewiya had knowledge that was rewritten by

Lewis and Clark, your geology, your biology, all the information you have in your museums, the knowledge that you received about this arduous journey, Lewis and Clark expedition, you can thank our ancestor of the botany.

And through that, our ancestor

She held dear to her teachings throughout her life.

She didn't forget them, just as each one of you.

Your ancestry, when you came to this country from Germany, from England, Sweden, those ancestries have good teachings.

Through that, they were not forgotten and she shared them with Lewis and Clark on this journey.

And one of our teachings, as stated earlier, our society was a democratic society.

She come from a democratic society.

And in that society, each and everyone had the opportunity to speak from the childish to the oldest person.

And one of our teachings, original teachings, was to have respect, and that respect begins with oneself.

And so each and every one, when you go amongst Native people, our elders, we hold them in esteem because of their wisdom, and the young people, because for each life is precious.

And

So everyone had a chance to speak and have what they had to say.

It wasn't a group of people or anybody specific.

And it was a cooperative where everybody worked together in peace and in harmony and in unity.

And that's what Sakatawea represented.

She represented peace and unity.

You recall that gold coin where the hands are shaking?

For the foundation of this country, I think some people forgot our station here on this United States.

Become self-indulgent.

not caring for your brothers and sisters forgot the teachings and because of her knowledge and her wisdom she was able to help the expedition and

She helped with the foundation of this country, the founding of this country.

And this morning, I went out there to look at that statue.

It did not make me feel good at all.

I didn't feel shame.

When I looked at that statue, this word come to my mind.

It said, Wuzzy Wipe.

That's not a good word.

It was humiliating.

I love my people.

I love my children.

I love my grandchildren.

As every American, I want that for all our children.

And I hope you do as well.

For all of us have value in this life.

It's not just this one person or that one person.

We all matter.

and that's how our people were, you know, we cared for each other, we took care of each other, everybody had something to offer, everybody had a skill, everybody had a place to do stuff but we helped each other and I asked that that statue be removed

I would rather not have it there at all, because it doesn't depict the truth.

And I'm sure if you asked Lewis and Clark today, they'd probably be appalled too, because she was her friend.

I hope that you find it in your hearts to reconsider this and that for this community I hope for peace, I hope for harmony as a society for each and every one and for all your children and your grandchildren

because we're only on this Mother Earth for a moment in time and I would like to see justice, peace, harmony, and unity.

What a beautiful world this would be.

And please honor our ancestor today.

for what she has done in her short life.

As each of you have children, I'm sure, and grandchildren that are young, that are out making their way in this world today, you hope for the best.

And to see them accomplish, it brings you joy.

And so

Let's have that hope for each other.

Let's hope for good things for one another.

Let's change the image of Charlottesville from what has occurred recently

I was looking on the internet, typed up Charlottesville.

The first thing I seen on there was not good.

It made me sad.

It made me sad for the people here.

But let's make a change.

Let's start today with the sun that's rise, that rose today.

Let's make it good.

We have that ability today.

But to have respect, it's not to be disrespectful of the efforts of our forefathers for what they've done as well.

So again, on behalf of our ancestor, Sacajawea, let's make our foundation strong on this continent.

We have that opportunity.

We have that opportunity for our future generations and what we can help for them as well, not just for us or in the past, but for the future as well.

And again, I ask that you remove this statue.

It does, it's very hurtful.

We've been told that people have come by, little children, and as Willow had said, she would not bring her child to see this.

And when we drove by there, there were cars going by there, there were students going through there.

That is

A negative educational perspective in my opinion.

Charlottesville, the university is located right by there.

Let's change this, change the course that has been taken and correct it for truth.

I just wanted to add on one little thing is I know right now in the world we have a young girl who is probably the same age as Sakatawea.

Her name is Greta.

I don't know how to say her last name.

Thurnberg.

I highly doubt that anybody

would like to see an image portrayed of her contribution to history in that manner.

You know, and that's one of the relations or correlations that

I would like to exemplify is the same type of a contribution whether it's through knowledge or whether it's through speaking or whether it's through leading.

I kind of think that the image of Greta would not be much appreciated by her family or her ancestors if she was depicted in a manner as if she was a dog, as if she was a monkey, as if she was less than human, as if she was subservient when this young woman is a leader in our world today.

You know, but I just wanted to put that out there because sometimes it's easier for us to understand the great impact it might have on the mentality of others, of other young women.

You know, if there was an image of Greta portrayed in the same inaccurate manner.

And so that was one of the correlations I wanted to make sure that I shared with everybody.

Okay, so Mayor, let's start the questions.

And that was a good question, what you said.

You said, remove the statue, but it sounds like you want another image in its place.

Okay, taxpayers?

No.

No, but what I'm saying is I think, Mayor, I think that replacing the image with another image, if it's financially possible, should be a must.

because it is a physical and visual change of what we are actually trying to say about the image.

And rather than looking at the image

There were some people that were saying to us, well, should we have an image of Sacajawea?

No.

I think we should have the two Virginians.

The other point, Mara, I'd like to add is that Sacajawea was a sergeant of the Army.

And Chief, if you all have any comments about, and part of this discussion and why it was important to make sure that there were local tribes representative and hopefully this is a conversation that will make sure that indigenous people from all over would want to participate.

But one of the questions I ask and I'm here respectfully listening and taking it in and hearing you as clearly as I can and I do have some comments but I think it's important that when we get to the part of the discussion about

Well excuse me I'm

I feel like I'm coming down with something, but you ladies have said a lot of things that I was sitting here feeling too.

I've never really liked that statue.

I have 11 grandchildren, and I honestly would not bring any of my grandchildren up here to see that statue.

And I'm as proud as my heritage as anybody in this room.

But as these ladies have stated, she should be out front.

Lewis and Clark should be behind her.

Yes, they got the expedition.

They planned it a little bit.

But when they got through planning, they looked at her and said, okay, now which way do we go?

She got them across the country.

If it hadn't been for her, it would have probably been another 50 years before they went to the places they went, met the people they met, and it did bring peace to the area.

I'm ashamed of the statue myself because it is not true history.

I'm a kind of a history buff.

We've got many statues in the state of Virginia, and there are a lot of talk about taking them down.

But I think every one of them should be looked at on a one-to-one basis.

If it predicts the history, the true history, then they should stay.

But that is one that definitely needs to be changed.

And I think I speak for every Monacan in the Monacan tribe.

I would like to see a statue up here that I would be proud to bring my grandchildren and say, this is a native lady.

You know, especially my granddaughters.

You can be great too.

But not with what we got now.

And I do feel sorry

that we have to come here to do something because we have done several things with that statue.

And every time we've had a gathering about it, the same thing's coming up.

When are we going to do something about this instead of just giving it lip service?

Yes, I know it costs money.

Everything costs money.

But money ain't the thing we're talking about here.

We're talking about the true history of this country

and the contribution that the native people have gave.

It's hard to say how this country would be changed if she didn't step up and say, okay, I will help you.

We wouldn't be talking about Lewis and Clark and the great expedition they had.

Not at all.

And it's time we, and I say we because I'm a taxpayer too,

to do something about this statue and get something up out that all of us can be very proud of.

And we want to bring our grandchildren, these ladies, we want to bring our grandchildren here and show them and say, look here, this is your ancestors.

You know, that's what we need to do.

Let's quit giving it lip service.

We do this with so many things in this state.

We need to put our best foot forward and do what is right and change that statue.

I don't want to be

20 years down the road if I'm still living in another group coming here asking the same thing because it's ridiculous to have to keep asking and asking for do something that is right and respectful.

That's what I'm saying and I think I'm speaking for the Monacan people.

Thank you.

Are you asking about a native perspective?

Yes.

You're asking, well, the Monacan people have been overlooked in the state of Virginia.

We have been paper genocided out.

We look differently from our cousins who are in the West because we've been occupied for a much longer time.

You know, the statue is a part of our history, but there's history of Virginian Indians prior to Sacagawea.

So, if you're going to tell the truth, you need to tell the whole line of truth about all the Natives, including her contribution, and hers is the most documented, but we are still here.

We still fight.

We still stay.

We've been secluded in the mountains, protected from society.

But we stand with our cousins from the West.

That's what they want.

They want the statue moved.

They should have the statue moved.

That's their ancestor.

I will say one more thing and then I'm going to shut up for the rest of the day.

Theresa makes a good point.

Here in Virginia, the history of Virginia Indians is a very dark mark on the English people that came here and settled this country.

Racial integrity law in the 1920s basically said there were no Indians in Virginia.

Two of the oldest reservations in this country is in Virginia, Pamunkey and Mattaponi.

They still exist today.

But in the 20s, there were no Indians here, according to the records.

And we had to fight that battle up until the 1960s.

I and this lady here beside me wasn't allowed in public schools until 1963.

Before that, if you got a seventh grade education at the Monacan Museum is where the school log cabin was built in the 1860s, that's where you went.

Seventh grade, you got a job.

You weren't allowed in the local schools for education.

And yes, there are other things that we need to do to show Virginia history and the Indian contribution, but you know there are

One or two small statues up, but this one's been here since 1919.

Let's start and get this one correct, and then we can talk about others that will show the history of Virginia Indians.

You know, everybody in here should be proud of the contributions the native people have given, because this country wouldn't be the shape it's in today if it hadn't been for those contributions.

Kochis, World War II.

I don't know if there's a stature of anything about that, but we might be going around speaking German now if it hadn't been for those guys, or Japanese.

But let's start with this one.

Let's get this one right, and then we can make sure that the rest that follow will be right too.

So, and I want to sit with my thoughts a bit more.

It would be a challenge for me, but we're an entire city and therefore other council members, to know how African and descendants of Africans on American soil were treated.

and to put a statue up that would still today commission to honor Lewis and Clark would be a challenge for me but my colleagues and you know we have three new council members coming on that is something that they may be able to do.

I do know how to honor people and honor wishes and that was the intention of having you all here and having this discussion.

I will say that where I am now in my life, when I think about correcting wrongs, I think about what would Native people have put there if they had been the ones in charge of

putting something to represent themselves there at the time or even now and would your first thought have been to include Lewis and Clark or would your first thought have been to honor your history and your contributions to the world and let it be reflective when people

see those images of your greatness and so those are the thoughts that I'm having but again we are here to learn and listen and figure it out.

And I have a question.

I'm very grateful for everything you've shared and for your journey here.

And it is an opportunity to learn, I think, for all of us.

And there's been such a history with this statue and a lot of discussion.

And Ms. Abramson, I wanted to ask, because you sent us an email

In June, because we had the discussion on the dais, and it sounds like things have changed, which is for us to hear.

Because I cited it when we had the discussion on the dais.

I just would like to understand.

Because you said, I believe, that the statute should be replaced back to the site once the repairs are made.

I'm asserting this because a decade ago, we came across the country bringing together people.

Can I write the history?

The statue stands for that unity, harmony, shared history and event.

I personally don't have strong feelings about the statue.

Yes, not the actual statue.

But what I was trying to express at that time was a statue, not that one.

And I was quickly trying to respond because you were having a meeting.

And I should have clarified that.

And that's what I was expressing.

Now, I think we have this opportunity now to really talk about this.

And we want to make the mayor express something about Lewis and Clark, per se.

You know, so I'm here to listen.

And I think the first thing we need to do is, do you have a truck and a chain?

No, I've just...

But, you know, that's how insistent we are about having that one, that particular statue.

But, you know, there's people that like to hold memorable, you know,

I can't say it because I'm a fluent speaker in my language and I have a hard time with L's but it's a word that says memorabilia.

Thank you.

Some people are prone to hoard those.

And so if we're here to listen to all sides, hoard it in the closet or way far away from the sight of the public but in reality

As I expressed in my letter, for those out west, for those out west, when we hear about Charlottesville, we saw the KKK, we saw people getting run over, we saw hate, and for us out there, we were thinking, did people from Charlottesville invite those folks in?

Are we safe out there in Charlottesville?

This is history taking place right here.

That was history and that will remain in history.

So will this.

So if we're going to make a decision now and we're going to make a change,

We need to make that change real defined.

One of the other comments I also wanted to make is that there was some comments regarding African American history and I think that the truth in that aspect and the reparations to be made

to those individuals or even their ancestors and the honoring of the great contribution that the African Americans have provided the United States and this world is very, very, very, very important.

And I also wish not to overshadow that.

You know, I think the main thing and the point that we want to get across is not that one group deserves more representation than another or anything in that aspect by all means.

It's more of a discussion about the truth telling of history because there is a lack of truth telling in history.

There is a lack of truth telling in what was really happening, the human trafficking that was happening around that time and I think the same story here

is almost the same story that coincides because we were dealing with a young woman who was a slave, who was sold, you know?

I do not want to overshadow that and if there are recommendations of having a display of the racial equity but then also not overshadowing those contributions.

Because in the United States a lot of our indigenous people, when you look at history books it's almost like we don't exist.

When you look at the history of the United States, it's almost like we're not there.

Sometimes I'll hear different things, such as we were not involved in the civil rights and that type of thing, but we were not considered humans.

We were considered animals, actually.

And they still have us housed in the Department of Interior, which houses

Land, animals, and resources.

That's where we still are right now.

We are in the Department of Interior of the United States because we are still just an afterthought.

I don't want to overshadow that aspect because I know that Virginia has a very, very rich history about what was going on around that time.

And one of the sentiments that came to mind in that is when this statue was erected, you know, it was erected after a time

when there was a North and a South fractionated United States and it was fractionated because one side wanted to uphold and maintain the privileges that one group had over our African American relatives.

And this place was right in the middle of it.

You know, and one of the sentiments that comes to mind is that at that time,

Things change, you know, and it's almost like a, well if we can't attack one group of people, let's degrade another.

You know, and that's one of the thoughts that came to my mind when you look at that statue.

It's kind of like, well these guys aren't humans anyway.

You know, we weren't included as citizens of the United States until 1924.

We were not allowed to vote until the 1960s.

We were not given the right to do what we were out there doing and smudging until 1978.

We were still considered sub-humans at the time until 1924.

in our own land, in our own spaces.

But I do want to say in the sentiments not to overshadow the long history that has happened in those aspects and that there is a need for reparations regarding the equity of humankind, regarding the integrity of human values,

and ensuring that that truth telling is out there, that the truth is told, that the truth is shared.

And I think, yes, and I think if we are going to make that change, we can literally just put her up.

and in reality, like my daughter was saying, we're also here to address humanity, not just for ourselves, but we're here to address it for red, yellow, black and white.

And I'm gonna say this because for us out west, you know, to put up a statue of Hitler,

Put up a statue of Hitler just for the sake of those who supported the Nazis and wanted up is ridiculous and for us to see these Confederate statues just for the sake of those but knowing that it hurts so many people we're addressing this as well

We're not, that's no less than.

In America, Charlottesville, if we're gonna make a change, let's make a change.

So we were going to have public comment during the lunch discussion and towards the end of the day, but you're up.

I just wanted to make a really quick comment and it addresses and brings a lot of things together to make it cohesive.

During the trip there was also an individual named York and he was of African ancestry and I know you all had mentioned maybe presenting a new statue that showed Lewis and Clark Sacajawea

But to get the whole picture included, if it were representations from several groups coming together, it could include York as well.

It could.

It's just something to throw out there to think.

Definitely, I love, okay, all the time everybody's talking, my sister's talking, I'm thinking about, we could put York in there.

Well, as a young person, I remember being in elementary school at Pioneer Elementary in Salmon, Idaho, and the favorite parts I loved reading about was, of course, about Sacajawea, because that was who I was from, but I also loved reading about the contributions of York, and I'll tell you one thing, York

All the Indians out west, they were fascinated with him.

That's what they documented with the documentation about him because of his hair, the color of his skin.

To us, he was exotic.

And actually, some of the tribes kind of married their women to him for a couple nights.

But it was because of this uniqueness of this human.

And for me, as a young person,

Anytime in history, I used to love reading anybody of color, no matter whether it be Indian, African American, Asian.

To me, it was the contribution of my minority.

So, no, the person that came up there, that would be awesome.

I was thinking about, like, why couldn't it be a statue?

All of our two, you know, the two famous Virginians, you know, but, you know, I think he was, who was he with?

Was he with Lewis?

Was he Lewis'?

He was with Clark.

Clark's?

Yeah.

He was with Clark and you read the Corps of Discovery and the documentation and his contributions too as well.

Really it's, to me it's really, it's wonderful because it's just the contribution of all these men and this woman and her child going on this great journey and something that representation of the contributions of these different ethnic backgrounds would be wonderful.

I just have a question, but a comment too, because right now the opportunity that's presenting itself is that the statue is going to have to be moved, just for technical reasons.

The question is how far away it gets moved, and that's kind of where we are.

Far, far away.

I would like to know from our staff, particularly our historic preservation planner, what are

What are the technical issues involved?

Because there are several different designations of landmark status.

If it's not in that vicinity, you just need to know these things.

And then second, it does strike me that of what to replace that statue with is a bigger conversation that needs to bring in even more people.

And I'm going to be off council in seven weeks.

that what is put in place there I think can, I personally don't see how we can make that decision today, but I do feel it's within our power to make an informed decision about the placement, where that statue goes today, provided we get the complete picture of the logistics of

from that legal perspective.

We have the Lewis and Clark Exploratory Center that's already said that they're willing to take it and that's been a big challenge of how do you still keep that history that was mistelling history.

That that's a lesson in and of itself too.

But your question about the prominence of this location, fortunately this does not get all hung up with the Virginia current state law about it being a war memorial.

It's not.

So there is a lot more freedom at the local level with this statute.

And I think we can take advantage of that.

But there's still some logistical questions.

So Mayor, if it's now, it'll be great.

Yeah, you can share that.

I would like to tack on to Councilor Galvin's question because there was a couple of comments that you all made about the history and about Lewis and Clark and so on.

I'd be very curious about your thoughts about it going to this Lewis and Clark.

No, but really in reality,

I think from, if the statue was there, I think there could even be a correlating exhibit that really shows what she contributed.

Do you see what I'm saying?

It could be placed there and explained that this was a perspective in reality.

She contributed to the botany, the biology, the geology, geography,

anthropology, sociology of the expedition.

I meant every piece of knowledge that they documented was her knowledge.

Even the names that were given to the tribes was the language of our people.

And so what we're saying is that maybe the center itself could pivot on that and have a truth exhibit, an exhibit of truth.

I think it should be included as part of the history.

Okay.

Added on to that, if it was moved and placed in an area that was dedicated to telling the truth of what, why the statue is there,

you know, why it was removed from over there or changed or whatever the plans are, but why it was removed, why it was placed over here and the reasons I think is really important, you know, the reason and also about what it represents, you know, and

It represents supremacy and I'm just putting that out there but that's kind of is a representation and a monument of that where there was other groups and other nations or other and they were like

Dogs are like monkeys going along and that's what it looks like on those, on the current statute.

But I think explaining why the statute was removed, the reasons, the connotations that go along with it and displaying that as just here's why, here's

the reasons here's what the truth in history is and this represents a time in American history when there was still a lot of disparities amongst racial and ethnic groups but I think you know just explaining that because a lot of young people might not understand or they might say well what's wrong with it you know but

Having the accuracy in history would be important if it is moved elsewhere and I wouldn't be opposed to it being placed elsewhere and used as a discussion or used to also explain but then also give hope to humankind and humanity because we all

We all do the same things as human beings.

I'd also like to add to that is

The leaders here of Charlottesville, representatives of this area as well as the state of Virginia, you are in a position now as far as what changes or what changes you will not make for this state.

That will go down in the annals of history.

And so, think things over.

Are you going to make changes or are you going to stay the same in what was presented to you today?

Because that, you're asking, well, what history do you want?

Do you mind if I ask one other question because I know that we're going to get asked it and I want to take advantage of while you are here and I know that came up 10 years ago which is the whole tracking argument that when the whole meetings were done 10 years ago that because we got a ton of emails and a lot of comments that she was in this tracking position being depicted in that role.

And I just want to know how we should, what your response to that is, how do we respond to that?

Ten years ago when we came, the first time I saw the statue I was appalled.

And I came as part of a group.

I wasn't the primary spokesman of the group, but I was part of the group.

And from the understanding that was given to us was

There was an unwillingness to remove the statue, so what can we do to make this ugly, ugly statue to explain why it appears as it was placed?

And so the plaque was considered, the plaque was

requested and that we come and at least make a step to appease the image.

And I think I can give you more information on that because at that time it was steps.

It's like anything, if you're going to make a change, it's in steps.

And it's now taken us a decade to go to this big major step.

and 10 years ago was 10 years ago when different voters, different perspectives, 10 years later now.

And so when we came, we had the idea that the statue was solid and permanent.

So we wanted to find some way to make it

to explain why she appeared animalistic.

And Guy, do you have a comment on that?

Yes, we went over this in the city council meeting, you know, what happened at that time.

Mary Joy Scala was there.

She was here earlier at the meeting here.

There was just no consideration of the idea that they would remove the statue.

And so that's all that we could get was a plaque.

And we'd hoped that a relationship would be built between the Lemmy Shoshone and the city of Charlottesville.

That, you know, we had ideas like we'd hoped there would be, you know, a lot more exchange than what's, you know, it's taken 10 years.

We'd like to see programs, you know, something more substantive, you know, in the city of Charlottesville, educational programs, you know, that provide indigenous knowledge.

Understanding that, you know, Virginia Indian tribes have a central role here and should be prioritized because, you know, the city doesn't have programs for, you know, that respect indigenous peoples, you know, and the role and the relationship

but now you know in the 10 years there's been with federal recognition of the six Virginia Indian tribes there's a lot more activity at the University of Virginia.

You know we're building, we're talking about establishing a UVA Center for Indigenous Studies.

We're trying to do, you know, to respect the protocols of how

institutions, governmental institutions relate to Indian nations and indigenous people's voices.

Where do we fit in into the university or in the curriculum?

All that we had in mind, you know, ten years ago, but it wasn't, you know, we went before the committee, Mr. Werner, now chairs, you know, they weren't gonna

They were so far away from that it was not even going to be considered.

I had an email from Rosina, and I will read it at lunch when I have it in front of me, but she said that when she came 10 years before, she did what she could for her ancestor by adding the plaque, and she felt that it was the most right thing that they could do at the time for their ancestor and for their women and children.

but she says in hindsight it may have done more harm than good because it made the city of Charlottesville feel that the family liked the statue, respected it and felt good about it but you know

Traditional people, we do what we can when we can, and we're always trying to build a better relationship.

and help with some things.

And I just did want to say I appreciate so much what you all said.

I live north downtown and when those people came to town, the police helicopters flying over my house, my son said, hey dad, I want to go downtown with some friends.

I said, no, we just got in the car and left and that was 10 o'clock that morning.

And Heather worked for a man I go to church with.

She was killed.

Outside of my office at that time where I work and Yeah, this community needs to find a way and one of the things the historic resource committee and I'm not the chair I'm just staff.

Um, but but one of the things we discussed earlier this year the committee said everyone in the world's watching Charlottesville and how we respond and

to what happened and what we do from those events and I think a lot of us are waiting for that to happen and so I take a lot of guidance from what you all are saying and hopefully that opinion of the Strict Resources Committee sort of maybe helps in some of this.

Now, to just simple facts and figures here, as far as any input from the Historic Resources Committee or anything like that, that's entirely up to you all.

I would say that I've already received a lot of input from a lot of people in the community and the opinions range from leave the statue alone to leave it there, recontextualize it to move it entirely.

and so I'm not preempting a discussion amongst the committee or anyone but it may be just saying ultimately it is going to be a decision before council.

Now relative to the local designation and so we've got three things.

We've got the city of Charlottesville designates things historic or in architectural design control districts.

There's state designation Virginia Landmarks Register.

and then there's the National Register of Historic Places.

I also serve as staff for the Board of Architectural Review.

The BAR reviews alterations to site structures within designated districts.

Virginia Landmarks Register and National Register doesn't create anything as far as the BAR, it's only that local designation.

In discussions with legal staff, the way the code is written, and it refers specifically to a map within the design guidelines, this statue is not identified as a contributing structure within that district.

As such, the removal or demolition of a non-contributing structure

is not subject to review by the Board of Architecture Review.

So, but to just add a piece to that, were it to be, were it to be looked at as in the context of the historic district, something very important about the BAR, and I think a lot of folks don't realize, but the BAR's actions in essence are recommendations, because every action by the BAR is appealable to city council.

99.999% of the time people accept that recommendation and don't appeal it.

So we're the BAR to review this and I as staff would have to advise the BAR to comply with our design guidelines which have very specific criteria relative to demolitions.

So I would be obligated to express to them here are the

reasons for preservation.

The BER could say, no, we will not grant what's called a certificate of appropriateness for that removal demolition, but then that could be immediately appealed to you all.

Sort of strange situation, but one body then being appealed to counsel, but that would be the way it could be handled.

But as far as our understanding of the code, there is no requirement that the BAR review the demolition or removal.

The other elements in this, and this is when we spoke in I think July at council meeting, if this is an action that singularly, entirely, I mean imagine that that statue is out in an island somewhere and has nothing to do with

The Streetscape Project and any state or federal funding is singularly, entirely, completely a city action that you all can make a decision and vote to remove it or keep it.

That is your decision.

If it's an element of the Streetscape Project in any way, shape, or form, then you do have that process because of its designation on the Virginia Landmarks Register

and because there's state funding involved, there are laws.

And so you would have to comply with that.

That there's not a, the result is not you can't touch it because of the state designation.

It would simply be to, there would have to be an evaluation of its impact.

So I think consistent with the recommendations that

We made in July, if this is something you wish to pursue and not have it be encumbered by that process, and certainly not encumber

What we said is a city infrastructure project, then it should, the best course is to treat this as a city decision and separate and not related to any other action involving VDOT or the state.

If you all do, if you do this independently,

So there's a follow-up question though.

Is given that we have received money from the state to do the streetscape improvement,

Best three years of my life.

Actually what we would do based on Mr. Warner's comments as well as some communications we've had from the Virginia Department of Transportation

This would be an independent action item for council and council would it would be both a resolution as well as an appropriation out of city dollars in which there are no commingled state assets and it would be treated more as

So at that point what's needed is going to be an estimate of the cost and so we would have to know where to go and where it would go and just get that estimate.

And I guess I see some NDS staff here.

How long would that take to get that estimate?

Okay.

Okay.

You can.

And I'd also be curious if the fund, because at some point if either we removed it now independent of any future plans to disrupt that area or maybe we would decide to do it at the time that that area is being disrupted where everything is already, I'm just wondering if there's a difference in terms of you know both process, cost,

I also want to offer one thought.

It's always dangerous brainstorming in public, but Mr. Warner here and some of the community and the voices that we're hearing.

So we have had this particular park is pretty unprogrammed right now.

And what was going to happen was this statue was going to move a few feet to accommodate a wider turning lane, as I understand it.

That park, as you all saw when you were there, it's a disaster.

It's like half asphalt.

It's not really a park because the way that it was designed.

So one of the things about this whole streetscape project is it's going to resolve the problem of just this weird asphalt triangle, which isn't really a park, and it's going to be a real park.

If this statue isn't there, then it offers a real, so the firm had been doing this programming kind of with the statue there, but they have native rock and they're going to try to make it.

If the statue isn't there, then the park, because there's going to be a real park there and it's going to solve this, it could be a real opportunity for us to have a real testimonial to a lot of what has happened.

in the community over the last couple of years with regard to history, tolerance, inclusion, pluralism.

I mean, it really could, because we're having this whole debate about Fourth Street, but then that's a whole sticky wicket because people want to, driving through the downtown mall is a whole thing and how to honor the memory of the folks there.

And then there's a lot of the groups that you all are talking about.

And it could be a real opportunity to just have this one park really be about

Pluralism and Tolerance and Inclusion in Charlottesville and it will be ripe for an RFP and for design and like we the city owns it and it could be if the statue isn't there and I think that the design firm that we already have on they were very interested in this mission like in sort of include they were a lot of West Main project was designed over the years to try and include the surrounding neighborhoods these are low-income neighborhoods with a lot of historical figures in their own rights and you could have

Some really wonderful programming for that park without the statue there.

And that could be done, so it strikes me that it's a real opportunity to address a lot of what we've been needing in this one place that's super central.

Everybody, I used to walk by this four times a day.

So, anyway.

And I just want to comment, I want to echo something the mayor said earlier, I was also surprised at your request to be more inclusive in terms of if there was a future representation in another statue, but one of you said, together we can reach an unreachable place was kind of a thought that you're coming from, that that group together did that, and I really certainly want to echo, I just feel that the idea of the unity and

and different groups coming together and just kind of playing off of what Mike said.

It's just something that is important to me.

I just think that it really just A, touched me that that was kind of your perspective and how you describe those relationships of your ancestor with these other players.

But also just where we are as a community right now and how important it is that we are working together to a more positive and unified future.

So I really appreciate those sentiments and I agree.

I think this is a really great opportunity for us to

take advantage of an even more moment as well as a space that is available.

Just a quick comment.

I want to caution us against, and this is what I think happens sometimes.

Honoring a group of people only does not mean you're not inclusive, right?

And sometimes we are so willing to stop the story that is a story of a certain group of people to tell a story of the whole.

And the story of the whole will come together when you also honor a group of people.

So you can't make every decision about everyone and everything.

At some point, you have to make a decision to honor the individuals that are just before you.

And a lot of times, people have a very hard time with that whole pull back and just because I may not be a part of this particular moment, that means that I'm excluded.

And that's a very fragile state

to be in and we often get there in conversations and we're about to take a break but I do want to pull us back around to the fact of everyone isn't honored in every moment and that doesn't mean that you're not honored it's just in that particular time in that particular space it is not your time in your space and again I'm just one voice here but I just want us to you know

Remember that and it's a very difficult place for people who have been traditionally honored only.

When you are being removed maybe from that moment of being honored in that space, it is a very challenging thing.

And there's always the search for my moment.

and we have to get away from that.

We have to be okay with when someone walks past an area, it is okay for them to read about, absorb the energy of, embrace in the spirituality of the moment of just the group of people that we're talking about at that time.

It does not have to be a whole.

I think I want to thank the representatives of the Western and Eastern tribes for your thoughts.

You have given me a lot to think about, especially as I continue to do the racial and ethnic history presentation of the Charlottesville area.

OK. All right, so we're going to take a 15 minute break.

And we are just continuing the discussion.

I guess I could.

So my question is this.

Are we all in agreement that it will be removed?

Council?

I'd like to answer that.

I think that speaking for me, this has been hugely informative and helpful to hear your perspective.

And I think that there is an opportunity actually to do a lot more with the park than we could without it there.

There's going to be a question, which we'll have to hear about from staff, about how much this will cost and how it can happen.

The logistical things are really important.

I know that when we're looking at the Lee statue, there's questions about roads and building.

Where does it go?

But I would like to know the answers to those questions.

and I think it's probably going to be for the next council also, but if the decision were made right now, I think if the cost and if it's practical, I think it should go next to Lewis and Clark Park and that we ought to make use of this park for whole other purposes.

So it is my hope that we leave here today.

I mean, we are a body.

We've been called to order.

We can make at least the first decision of whether we agree to move the statute.

I don't think that that should come, and I'm not saying that that's what you were saying from the next council.

We can do in terms of the cost and, you know, asking staff to go and look at, you know, presenting us with location, the fees that it would take to move the statue.

That could come at a later date.

Hopefully that's something we could have by the, you know, second meeting in September.

If not, I mean December, yes.

At the end of the year.

If not, then that would roll over to maybe a January meeting.

But based on what I heard from staff today, it appears that that is some information that they could get us for us to consider.

I'm hoping today that by resolution a decision will be made and I believe for those of you that are outgoing, you shared with us that you will be outgoing from office, that this will be your legacy, that this will be your legacy for a new tomorrow,

This is going to be just, this could sound like kind of an annoying bureaucratic detail, but I don't think that we can as a matter of procedure vote on a resolution if it hasn't been noticed.

for the public before regular meetings.

So I don't think, there's not a resolution that we have before us so we can't vote in this meeting on something if the public hasn't been noticed in advance and they've had time to digest it and appear to a regular city council meeting.

If I may, so again, thank you.

I've had really beautiful conversations in the break with several of you.

And I just want to begin by saying that the way the morning started, for me, the word that keeps coming over and over in my mind, it was sacramental.

It was grace-filled.

The actions that you performed, you engaged, you conferred upon us, I felt,

was profoundly filled with grace and grace is the ability to do good that I believe.

So I want to thank you for that because that is the way

I know I make the better decisions.

And we have, as I said earlier, this golden opportunity already.

With the street improvement project, the statute is going to move.

Yes, it can just move away from that location.

This is a statute that we can possibly put in another location within our region.

So that we still tell that story in context about why it was moved, what Sacajawea really meant for the expedition.

But moving it, I am prepared to say and direct to our staff to please write a resolution saying that this council is moving the statue.

to a location to be determined or perhaps between now and that resolution we can confirm that the exploratory center will receive it.

As much specificity as possible would be helpful.

That I'm prepared to direct our staff to do that today because Mr. Signer is correct.

We can't vote on it now, but we can direct staff to prepare it.

Then the follow up resolution would be the appropriations, but that needs more research.

We need to know what the cost is, the logistics of it.

The timing of it is another question.

I think Vice Mayor Hill made an excellent point that you don't want to change a city's traffic patterns any more than once.

So when we go to do, the good thing is that this is phase one of our West Main Street improvement project.

So when that begins and you start rerouting traffic, that's when it makes sense to move it because otherwise you'd be disrupting traffic twice.

And that's a safety precaution.

It's not to belittle this major, major action.

It's just that it's a safety precaution.

So I just wanted to assure you that there will be

Action involved, just the timing I think matters, the cost, it gives us more time to raise the money to move the statue, know where it's going to go.

You know, you keep saying you're leaving the office.

When would that be?

And if you passed a resolution, how long would it take to get this other work done given the cost?

I'm trying to get a date where we'll definitely see something done.

Sure.

Actually, for resolution, this meeting was publicly noticed.

So ordinances require two readings, and appropriations, I believe over $500, require two readings.

But if it was the council's desire today, you can, in fact, pass a resolution if that's your desire today.

I thought, but we, Mr. Blair, we've always, our practice is to have resolutions in advance so the public can digest them and prepare responses.

We don't have a resolution.

Correct.

To your point, certainly there has not been a written resolution as of now.

Now if you wish for staff to compose one, we can.

But in terms of legality versus practice, legality, you could pass a resolution today.

Just out of curiosity, from what I understand, and it was televised in my area, that there was already a discussion on this and time for the public to think about it.

And I believe it was this past fall

Today it's November, right?

November 15th.

Weeks and weeks and weeks.

And so I'm just wondering how much more time we are going to have the public think and think and think some more.

I think your public, from what I've been reading on the internet,

have already been thinking about this.

And so,

How much more time do we need the public to think about this?

Or how much more time are you considering?

But Ms. Abramson, what's hard about that is the last time we talked about this was in June of this year and I specifically referred to the email that you sent us on the dais when we made the decision where you asked us to keep the statue in place and you wrote us that

I think when the statue is replaced where it stands it should be celebrated with the same togetherness and I firmly believe this will erase what the world witnessed in Charlottesville's recent events of disharmony and division.

I referred to what you asked us to think about when this last came up and the public heard that.

Well, but today.

But the last time this came up, the last time this came up, this made a big impact on me.

I want to see that statue removed as soon as possible.

That's my recommendation.

We can talk about this and it can still be up there and it'll be the next generation addressing this

I took notes here earlier today that there was discussion and input from the community already and there was response to the community and therefore my understanding as I was watching TV this morning that the community was invited to attend this meeting to discuss this matter and express their opinion

I traveled all the way across the country to address this issue.

My sister and I wrote that comment on behalf of Sacajawea because of the image it portrayed.

And I would like to see a resolution proposed today to remove that statue.

All the other items that need to be addressed be addressed following the resolution today and I forgot my other comment but I would like to see that done today and on behalf of my ancestor, our ancestor and

We've got recommendation from legal staff regarding this matter.

We've got comments from representatives from the various individuals from Charlottesville that have interest in this.

There was recommendation to remove the statue to a location of a historical type museum.

There was discussion of that.

I would like to see that as a second phase.

Oh, and the third thing is that I think feasibly it would be best to

Again, take this opportunity to remove that statute due to costs.

People are discussing costs and concerned about costs.

This would be most cost effective and just to move forward with this today.

You're welcome once again.

Yes.

I had to move the mic, but anyway, I'll just...

Taller people.

So phase one of the streetscape, we're currently re-scoping things to ensure that we're meeting all the state requirements.

We then need to go to right of way.

So we are proposing that construction will begin in 2021.

2021.

2021.

I have a question, Paul.

So can you speak to the Councillor Galvin's comments about disrupting it twice in terms of that median section?

I just have a question about how moving the statue would change the traffic pattern because the streets would remain that we currently drive on would stay the same, so how would that process

Well she just talked about disrupting the traffic pattern so waiting until this now late 21 date to move the statue and I'm asking if the

No, if you would prefer to expedite the removal, I'm sure that we could work with a weekend night schedule of removal.

And so, Mayor Walker, please, I had no idea that was going to be as late as 2021 for the phase one construction.

I thought we were talking about next year starting.

So, yeah, this is a different calculation.

I didn't realize we were that far away.

As well as a timeline.

My apologies, I'm going to have to go because of this professional conflict I have, but I really appreciate you all coming.

I hope that you weren't misled to think that we made, we don't even have one of our colleagues here today, but we do make decisions on things like this with resolutions that come to meetings.

I think that there is support.

I'm certainly planning on being supportive of

I just think we need to do it in the way that we do these actions.

So thank you all.

We are going to break for lunch.

and reconvene at, well, we're going to have a discussion during lunch.

So just maybe take 15 minutes or so to get lunch.

So in the order that our staff has put together for lunch is for our guests to get their lunch first and then followed by staff.

and then city, by council, then city staff and then other members of the public.

And so I call this meeting back to order.

Again, as we're starting this afternoon's session,

I'd like to say that I'm very grateful for everyone that's here and in the native world we believe that everyone that is here is meant to be here.

To make this great historical decision and to leave a legacy for future generations to come.

Some of us when we go through these things we see it as just simple things we have to do in life but in reality for us as native people this is a great moment and this will go down.

This is a moment that you are making a decision that's going to change the lives of people

You're going to change the minds of young people who walk back and forth at that university.

Maybe this is why Virginia Indians do not have recognition in the way that they should.

Maybe this is why Virginia Indians do not have

a curriculum, resource for students from the area to know about tribes, maybe this is why it does not legitimize native people.

Maybe as these young people walk back and forth and as they go out into the world to become congressmen, as they go out into the world to become teachers,

It impacts their view, their perspective, and their expectations of Native people.

Native people in Virginia need no longer to be invisible.

Once this image is removed, and once it is out of sight,

it'll bring a growth to people and like the mayor said when we make a decision and when we make it in behalf of others we are actually doing it for all and so today we're going to make history and once they do what they need to do in front of each and every one of us today

I would like to conduct a Lemhi Shoshone Ceremony.

It is called Na'ahun.

And so I would like to see what's going to take place here.

I would like to say a final word.

I will say a final word regarding this.

On behalf of Sacajawea and for all Native people, not just the Algonquin but the Monacan and the different tribes throughout the United States, but I'd like to read this that I wrote.

Teach them the truth about the first Americans.

One of the first teachings amongst Native people is to have respect for all things beginning with oneself.

When we give each child the opportunity to grow and learn about the rich history and culture of their forefathers, only then can they grow strong without fear and doubt of their own worth.

And for this,

and being cognizant of our ancestor, I ask that you consider this.

Thank you.

Well, on behalf of the Monacan people,

Before we had our meal, I was sitting here and I was thinking another meeting with nothing done.

But then you passed out this resolution and that shows me that the people here in Charlottesville that are in the government are

willing to step up and do something and you know I hope we will never have to come to another meeting like this still talking about removal of the statue.

If this is done and done the way it's written I think everybody will be happy and this will be a historic moment not only for the native people in this country

but also for the people here in Charlottesville.

Jogma Yakuke, gratitude for the gifts of your words and your works.

This means so much to me that hopefully my grandchildren will be raised in a more respectful environment.

And I appreciate every single one of you.

Let's follow through.

Yeah, thank you for drafting the resolution, Mr. Mayor.

Also, hello to Dr. Bellamy.

And also, I did want to say thank you to the Monacan people, the Monacan Nation, Chief Branham.

We're living our lives.

We're trying to do our best.

We're hanging in here as native people here in Charlottesville.

This is a very positive step.

It's been a long time coming.

I think we're building community here and I think this is democratic and I feel like it's a step forward for humanity and I think about how important Charlottesville is historically for the United States.

It's the home of three presidents, the home of Lewis and Clark.

and other historic luminaries that have built this country.

But then I think about Thomas Jefferson and his notes on the state of Virginia where he makes comments about American Indians in his notes on the state of Virginia and the section of his comments are under flora and fauna.

So there's the reality of

The legacy of this city and what kind of country, what kind of mentality it's promoted and I think we're getting to a place where we're facing that and being able to to be honest about it and take steps forward as you know with dignity and respect and I

Our work isn't done.

I have to say, there is another statue that we have to deal with, but it's another Indian nation that we're going to be inviting, who are depicted, and it's a statue owned by the University of Virginia, which celebrates some.

George Rogers Clark, who was the eldest brother of William Clark and it shows him basically attacking a Native American family and we believe they're Shawnee and it's right on the corner of the university.

That's just the backdrop.

You don't, you know, I'm sorry to tell you that because, you know, that's another body that will, you know, hopefully we'll have a meeting like this with the Shawnee representatives and we'll hear from them.

But this is a great example.

Thank you.

When I was a little girl, one of my grandpa's story time, one of my grandpa's asked me, how do you stand really close to someone when you're very different from them without saying ugly things or taking things from them without kicking them or hitting them?

And I knew, as you do, that you don't have to have an answer when you're talking to grandparents.

You can say, I don't know.

I wanted to have time to give a good answer.

And I knew he would respect that.

It was very rare for my grandfather ever to say an answer to a question, only he just gave me more questions.

But this time, he started to answer this, and he continued to answer for several years.

And the first thing he said to me is, ever you're going to meet, you both have to be walking toward one another.

And so I practiced this on the playground for several years, just trying to get someone's attention who looked different from me and smiling at them, walking, get them to walk to me too.

But when they got there, I would say, hi.

And they would say, what?

And I would be like, do you eat spaghetti?

Anything different that I can.

And it was annoying to a lot of people, actually.

But as my grandfather and I talked about this again, he says, how do you stand really close to someone when you're very different without kicking them or hitting them, without taking things from one another, without saying ugly things?

And I said, well, first, you both have to be walking toward one another or else you will never meet.

And he says, Chokmah, good, this is right.

And then he asked me, and then when you meet them, then what do you do?

and I said, I've been working that out.

Sometimes they get mad at you, you know, they walk away.

And sometimes you follow them, they get more mad, you know, or they won't come toward you at all.

And I continue to try smiling and gifting and every kind of thing I can think, sharing food, anything, you know.

My grandfather said, once you have come to meet together, you have both been walking toward one another, the next thing to think, and you learn in school this thing, you are all the same.

and so you look for something that you're uncommon.

Well, I can't tell you that we are not all the same.

And we look for something in common with one another, then we will not resolve conflict because this is where we have peace, how we are the same, what we have in common.

Yes, that's not what my grandfather said.

Instead, he said, this was when you come to find out how it is that you're different.

You come to understand your differentness.

Ah, this was more information.

So I go back to the playground for several years and practicing this and even in high school practicing this.

It got a little better, you know?

Now I know what I'm looking for and I know a lot of things that are different about me, especially when I moved from my community to a large school with thousands of children, all different from each other.

And as we talked about this again,

And he said, Grace, how do you stand very close to someone when you're very different from them without hitting each other, without kicking and taking things from one another, without saying ugly things?

And I said, first, you have to be walking toward one another.

And then when you come to meet, you come to understand your differentness.

And he said, yes, chukma.

And then, huh, yeah, wow, I don't know.

You know?

And my grandfather says, you have at this moment to come to understand how their differentness is for them.

He said nothing to me about how I can explain to them my better way and this is how I do it and let's talk about this and when we find something that we are the same.

No.

He said, you come to understand how their differentness is for them.

Yeah?

And only then, when you can understand how someone's differentness is for them, then you can come close to respecting that person, to having honor for them, not for how you are the same.

And I see Charlottesville trying to do this.

I see people walking toward each other in the streets.

I just wanted to say very briefly it's really good to be here with you all I apologize for my tardiness my daughter shows everyone who is in control all of the time so I'm really really happy to be here and again I know a few of you from different capacities and I know I worked with a couple of you a couple years back when we wrote the resolution to no longer

celebrate the individual who shall not be named, but fully celebrate Indigenous Day, Indigenous People's Day.

And I was really, yeah, I was really glad that we were able to do that.

Rest in power to Ms. Wood.

She put a lot of work into that and I'm really happy that you all are here.

Very briefly, my great-grandmother is half Cherokee and I remember her telling me stories, and I mentioned this before, but I remember her telling me stories about

So before I read a resolution that I would like for my colleagues to consider today and at the end I'll read it so the public will it will be on record.

You know we've been talking about this path forward and what does it look like since you know what's been termed here the Summer of Hate.

and for a lot of people they did not have the

there wasn't the possibility of them only being reminded of their day-to-day existence because of that summer.

They lived it every day and they faced it every day of trying to survive in a country that they didn't feel like citizens in, that they didn't feel honored, didn't feel respected in.

And I often try to weigh

especially in this new role that I am as a city official weigh the feelings of individual who did not have the daily struggle of trying to survive in a place where they had been constantly told they didn't matter, they didn't belong.

And I think when I hear any

Any conversation, if I read anything, that reminds me that there is a person going through the same thing that I know that generations of people within my family has experienced.

It hits home in a way that isn't patient.

You know that doesn't allow for us to come out of this with a timeline that's comfortable or to leave it to future generations.

At some point,

The thing that I've been trying to tell people every conversation I've had in this role and just how I lived my life before I was in this role was that you have to be bold and audacious and it may be very uncomfortable and I've always known that to be alive and sacrificing yourself by living untruths

is already death.

And you may limit the impact you have on the world because someone may decide that you shouldn't be here because of the truths you speak.

But deciding to, no matter what the consequences are, that to live fully for me meant

to live in truth and to discover that and that that would be uncomfortable and it wouldn't be anything patient about that, which is a challenge for people to understand the sense of urgency that a lot of people want to make decisions from that have been negatively affected in the past.

Both of whether we're talking about tribes from the East or the West, you all understand by lived experience, by those testimonies that have been passed down through generations, how your people were destroyed.

Right?

That there was never an intention to survive, to be here today, to tell the stories of your ancestors, and anyone who carries the weight of being the people to carry those stories

forward, and to make an impact in terms of turning the tide on how those stories are told to the public in the future.

That's very heavy, heavy work.

But for me it means only two things.

You stay in the sin of the untruths.

You live a very

You live in the lie that prevents you from truly living or you're bold and audacious and you're able to use the breaths in your body, the knowledge that you have and

helped change the course of our world.

And we're not talking about just that statue or just a decision.

You're talking about reimagining a world that shouldn't be the way it is and how do you go back to the moment where that started changing and changing it for the future.

Those are the kind of decisions that we're making today.

While history will always be there, how do you reshape something

into something new and more beautiful and truly welcoming and where there's true unification without one, the acknowledgement of how things were so wrong and the willingness to move forward.

And when you're in positions of power, not to request that the individuals who have been affected are the ones that show you grace by waiting longer for the change.

So with that energy, I had our city attorney draft a resolution, because while it may not be practical the way we usually do things, nothing about reinventing, reimagining, rediscovering this world will follow paths that have been followed forever.

And so since it is not illegal,

I would like for council to consider the following.

So resolution directing staff to prepare removal of the statue located on West Main Street depicting Sacajawea, Meriwether Lewis and William Clark.

Whereas the Charlottesville City Council convened a work session on November 15, 2019 to discuss the statue depicting Sacajawea, Meriwether Lewis and William Clark, located on West Main Street in the city of Charlottesville, Virginia,

and whereas the Charlottesville City Council received input on the statues from representatives of the Shoshone and Monacan tribes including the lineal descendants of Sacajawea and whereas the lineal descendants of Sacajawea expressed their extreme displeasure with the depiction of Sacajawea in the statue located on West Main Street.

Now therefore it be resolved by the Council of the City of Charlottesville, Virginia that staff is directed to present the Council with a plan for removal of the statue from the West Main Street

Before there can be any discussion, there has to be a second.

Was it a motion?

Oh, OK. You're right, because the mayor can't.

For discussion?

Oh, and then I think whoever has the mixed emotions gets to it.

Well, I'll say, uh, sidewalk of those.

I didn't think about it like that.

I'm glad you put it in that regard.

I agree.

This isn't normally how we operate in terms of bringing forth resolutions and then voting on them the same day.

I do think, as you alluded to, there is a strong will for us to, these are kind of uncharacteristic times and sometimes we have to do things in an unconventional manner.

And I think just reading the resolution, it doesn't say that we're moving it today.

The resolution actually says in the fourth paragraph that the council will direct staff to present the council with a plan for the removal of the statue.

That's kind of how I see it.

I'm pretty confident that we're all in support of this resolution.

I think it was more of a matter of procedure is the question.

I would say that the last section around the scope of what a future plan may look like, I'm interested in what some of the folks around the table feel because I know that there was some discussion earlier around

Yeah I would agree with that but I think that the way it's written is broad enough to allow for several different groups and several different people to provide their input because even in the last paragraph it reads that staff is directed to present a plan to the council.

of a new statue with primary consultation from the indigenous people on the design of the statue.

So literally we'll be receiving the information from folks who have been most affected and they'll be driving the scope of how the statue will look and specifically in terms of bringing back forth a plan to the council.

So I think we still will be hearing directly from them and in that regard we're asking for a plan.

Yeah, I'm not opposed to having even that language.

They both fall under the indigenous peoples.

I think you opened it up when you said consultation from indigenous people.

Well you know I was just thinking about the one statue and you know we you know would like to be a part of it but you know it's y'all's people and you know we will be as much a part of that as you would like for us to be.

You know we're here in support of what you want to have you know take place

Today and down the road and you know I know there's other statues that will probably have some work to be done to them but I think we can cross that bridge when it gets here but you know the reason we're here today is to work with the our brothers out west and get that done.

But you leave it quite open, which is good.

But, you know, we don't want anybody to feel like we're coming in here and trying to take over because it's their ancestors, their native people, just like we are.

I think it's pretty general but that's what it would be.

So it's fine.

I was more just at the scope of what that future plan may be.

It may be beyond a specific statue of Sacajawea.

That's one component, but it might be more than that.

And so I want to make sure we're as comprehensive.

It's actually not around the indigenous people phrasing.

It's more about the scope of what we're trying to take on.

And in our conversations at lunchtime, telling the story of the Monacan people has never been told as well.

So I think that's in keeping with what Counselor Hill is saying, that it could be a new statue of Sacagawea.

I think that's where the scope of that leaves it open to she could be

Native people have different things that they carry, and she could have something about the Monacan in her hands.

You can leave it open.

I'll just say it again, make sure I got it right.

So, be it further resolved by the Council of the City of Shostel that staff is directed to present a plan to the Council of a new statute of Sacajawea

So in other memorializations of Virginia native people, I would agree with that.

I think that bodes well for us and it's all encompassing.

Blood, I would like to continue though this discussion about the timing of this.

I do think it's important that we have a conversation about

I just want to ask real quick before you go, you're making a change.

Do I need to make a formal amendment?

But again, Mr.

Player, I know you said there's nothing illegal about this, but I really need to say that there was nothing in our notice in the meeting today that there was going to be a vote on an action item.

and number two, there's nothing that we've ever done in order for the sake of transparency and quite frankly for the legitimacy of what we do as representatives of an elected body in a community that we haven't done, we haven't posted it, the public needs to see this

and then we put it on a public meeting on a Monday night.

People can come and speak to it and then we vote on it.

I'm looking out at the community right now.

There's about 30 people in this audience and two-thirds of them are either staff or the press.

And I want this to have legitimacy for perpetuity.

It can't at all be tainted in any way that looks like this was done without public notice.

And so to me, I would love to have this be on our next meeting or posted meeting, I guess December 2nd.

The council can always amend its agenda at the meeting itself.

And then is it possible to send a notice and through Mr Wheeler that we're having this vote on Monday night?

So that would be my preference is that we amend the agenda on this coming Monday, a public meeting, to have this vote with this rewritten resolution.

And then we have an opportunity to notify the public that this is happening so that nothing is looked upon as this being done behind closed doors.

We've got to be committed to transparency.

So Kathy, again, they were here in 2009.

We had this discussion.

This meeting is noticed for us to be here together.

Having this discussion means that this is a public meeting.

The news is here.

We are being recorded.

Live Stream, and all of this information is public.

This is very different from making a decision like this than behind closed doors meetings that have happened without this level of public input forever that have affected

The very people that we're talking about today.

I am saying that I am uncomfortable voting for this today because the public was not notified that we were going to be voting on something like this today and that is where there's a problem with transparency.

We've been also talking all this morning in a very, very good space about the need to promote

Unity, kindness, love, humility, and it would be very sad that because there is a desire to have even greater transparency and be very much consistent with our policies that the public is understanding of what we're doing that we break down this day, this very special day, in discord.

and I do want to vote on this resolution.

May I make a comment?

and I'm sure that people are very aware that we are here and I was watching all the media, the journalists, everyone that was here and I think they're watching to see us make a decision and I know that people are aware of this.

I just as a visitor kept seeing it on the news and

I think it's an opportune time, but I'm seeing a little bit of a reluctance and I don't understand why.

but I think a decision could be made at least on the resolution and if you make a choice to the next meeting at least we know as when we're leaving that there's a decision that's been made so we can go and we travel this ways we went through it's hard for you to understand our epistemology as native people but we believe the spiritual world and the physical world is connected

There's a lot of things that have happened to us to come here, to be here, to experience what we have had here.

I can't begin to tell you very spiritual things and it is not my insistence but I feel at the insistence of the spirit of my ancestor that a decision needs to be made.

It's been 10 years

since we talked about this.

It's been 1919 that her spirit had to endure that image of being, I think my daughter best described it, being set to the side like a monkey, a dog, a pet.

And so I think we need to stand up.

There's times we need to stand up in our lives

for right, the truth.

And I know sometimes we're afraid when we're in a public office, when we're in a public position.

But people voted for you.

They trust your decision.

They trust who you are.

And I'm going to call you to at least make a decision so that before we go back,

And thank you.

A phenomenal point specifically regards to you all being here and you're right we don't understand what it takes for you to come and it hurts me chief to hear you say initially before you change your mind like you thought another meeting for nothing we don't want you all to feel that way especially in this this

where we think the city is going in terms of us making amends and trying to truly reconcile.

And I think that, that's right honey, I think that it is okay for us in some regards to make special

changes and do things that may be out of the norm because this isn't a normal kind of circumstance and I think the public will trust that we did the right thing and they know based on the history bless you sweetheart they know based on the history that we did do the right thing if we take the vote.

All due respect to the Council, this is the second open to the public open to public conversation and discussion meeting that I myself have attended this year.

It has been continuously discussed in the public and the public was given the option to come and discuss for the first meeting where I spoke and Guy spoke and for this meeting.

And we are here in front of the family who cannot be coming back over and over.

They're here now.

The Monacan Nation is here now.

and I keep thinking about this thing that Wynonna LaDuke says, she says, how old are you in your ability to say I'm sorry?

And she says the US government is about the age four, where they say I'm sorry as they run past you shoving you on the playground.

So when you talk about having an opportunity of transparency and being leaders,

You have an opportunity and transparency with the legal process by which you have followed to the letter with multiple discussions to make sure that is true.

You know, my reading of the resolution is it just calls for development of plans, you know, the part to be it resolved.

Staff is directed to present the council with a plan for the removal, cost estimates, and

Staff is directed to present a plan to the council of a new statue, Sacajawea, with indigenous consultation, basically.

Is that really, you know, a foregone conclusion that it's going to happen?

I mean, it's about, it's something substantive.

But it's just putting together a plan and cost estimates.

That's all it is.

It's not the kind of thing that I think you'd be subjected to, you know, criticism that you acted on behalf of the public without their input, especially given

You know, all the input that we've had plenty of time.

So basically I disagree with the way it's being characterized.

I think putting together a plan is just, that's all it is.

No, you're correct.

Just asking for a plan.

That's just it.

Everyone is in agreement about having it moved.

So I'm wanting to make sure that we

We do follow the process so that we are as inclusive with our community as possible.

Is there a fear that we won't vote on this?

No, so I have two questions.

The first question is we know

The feedback we got from the community just a few months ago and I can pull up some of those letters now but it was all people who thought that the statue did not represent Sacajawea the way that the family has expressed for the most part and who thought that it should stay in place.

So we know that unless those tides have turned, that's the primary feedback that we will receive, giving people another opportunity.

Or if they change course, then there will be no issues.

Either way, we have received that feedback in the past.

The second thing I ask council to consider is,

We're talking about formalities when we've covered our bases in terms of, you know, legally according to our city attorney.

And then it's just back to the comment that I made about there will be no kind of paved road for this path that we're on.

You're going to walk through, you know, probably some swamps.

You're going to walk on rocks.

You're going to walk on some dirt roads.

You're going to walk on some untrodden paths.

And so it's important to understand that not everything is going to be able to be as is.

If we're not breaking any rules legally, rules that other primarily men put in place, we can change those.

And we're not even changing anything.

We're still following what is the letter of the law according to our attorney.

And I just asked us to consider what I think the family or anyone who has spent over a decade not just doing this work with us, but how many years that they've been doing this work, probably their entire lives.

I would just say, what does

Samir Walker, I would like to offer this idea because the pain and anguish has been heard.

There is 100% commitment to remove the statue.

We are representatives of a community of 49,000 people.

There are responsibilities associated with that.

So, Mr. Blair, can we, if there is some, I don't know what act, the act today, can we also do the act on Monday?

I want, we need to have this on a public meeting, where it's, there's agenda, where it's been identified as an action item.

Well I think to answer your question there

I don't think you could vote on the resolution today and vote on the same resolution on Monday.

You know, once the council has taken an action, it's taken an action and it's really just duplicative to take the same action on Monday.

I think in terms of if you were saying is there something you could do today that and still consider this resolution on Monday, certainly this isn't done in local government.

I've heard of things such as the sense of the Senate and the United States Senate.

I suppose you could have a motion that the sense of the council is.

to move the statues and then have this as an action item on Monday.

Frankly not done in local government law.

I mean, it's like I said, the U.S. Senate does things like that from time to time.

Mr. Blair, to that point, I appreciate the feedback.

And Ms. Galvin, I appreciate the feedback as well.

But technically, we already have a motion on the table that's been presented as well as second.

So I would like to call the question.

And if that doesn't pass, let's explore the items or other methods.

Well, first, we do need to take a vote on the... For the amendment?

So we know counselor Signer supports it.

But not everything's going to be clean.

I think we all agree with it.

But in the media, can we vote on the friendly amendment?

Yeah.

So I'll accept.

As I make the motion, I accept Councilor Galvin's friendly amendment.

Oh, second.

Yes.

OK. All in favor?

Aye.

Aye.

Second.

First?

Well, I think once there has been a motion that's been seconded, now there's the discussion among the counselors.

All right.

Aye.

Aye.

Hi.

Good afternoon.

My name is Virginia Hill and thank you for coming all this way and thank you all for being here.

It's very important to me to hear the voices of the people who started, been here, whose blood has been here on this land that we call the United States of America.

I had a question because I guess I don't understand why you would call a meeting if you feel you can't make a decision.

And I appreciate Mayor Walker saying that there are times that it is important to move forward.

And that time is now.

We do not have time to wait.

I don't know why I am the way I am, but from the time I was a child and saw that statue, I didn't like it.

And it made me feel awful.

Because as a young person growing up with the history of this country, I could see through the historical lies.

In fourth grade, I saw a picture of an indigenous person.

I grew up in Virginia Beach, where all of this started.

where people first came in to the Chesapeake Bay.

Of course, it happened before that obviously, but where this current making of this country kind of began with Jamestown.

And the picture in my fourth grade history book was a Native American person kneeling down showing them how to put corn in the ground to fertilize, I mean, fish in the ground to fertilize their corn.

And those people were called savages.

I didn't understand that.

So really I just have a question and that is, I don't go to city council meetings, this is my first one so I apologize that I'm not taking more interest in this before but I guess I'd like to know what is it that you called this meeting for if not to make a decision today?

And why would we wait until Monday?

I'm sorry, I found out about this and I don't pay close attention to the news or the newspaper.

My sister said I think you'd be interested in this.

and I did not expect to be here for five hours.

I had an appointment I went off to when I came back because I knew I wanted to be here.

And I just think it's important that you make this decision and that you have the ability to stand on your conviction of who you are representing.

We've chose you.

And there's been decisions made that I don't particularly appreciate in this town, but I don't, you know, unless I'm going to go out and stand and say something,

I chose these people, you know.

So I guess I'm just asking you to make a decision today in front of these people who have come here, obviously for a second time, a long ways to say what they feel about their family and how they've been represented.

And listen to your heart more than anything else.

I think that's the, Willow spoke about integrity and out at the ceremony today to listen to your heart, that's the thing you need to listen to.

If we don't start moving as a people in this world to listening to our hearts and making decisions that are tough and just doing it, feel good about it.

Osiyo Niigata, Zach Tagodawa, Chichalagi.

That is to say hello, everyone.

My name is Zach.

I am a citizen of the Cherokee Nation.

I grew up in Virginia Beach because I was raised by my grandparents, and my grandfather was a senior chief in the United States Navy.

He was a sonar tech.

But I was born in Oklahoma, the land where my ancestors were forcefully removed

under the policy of Andrew Jackson and then the president after him whose name I'm forgetting at the moment.

But that policy was promoted and advocated for and then implemented by Jackson after being learned about from the writings of Thomas Jefferson.

Thomas Jefferson is a huge figure in the politics of Charlottesville and the history of Charlottesville.

This is where he established his residence with Monticello.

This is where he established the University of Virginia, where I now study.

And I almost did not apply to the University of Virginia.

It is an excellent school.

and there was a great opportunity.

I knew from policies that were in place that I would have a good opportunity for financial aid that would make it affordable for me to attend college here.

I almost did not apply because the first thing I saw when I came here was the statue of George Rogers Clark.

and the second statue I saw was not the one of Lee or of Stonewall Jackson.

It was the statue of Lewis and Clark and this is how I described it the first time I saw it.

Sacagawea cowering beneath the white overlords and that's how it is portrayed.

and I wanted to read you some statistics.

These are from the National Congress of American Indians, one of the foremost policy groups advocating for Native Americans.

It is an organization that is a joint operation of hundreds of tribes within the United States.

More than four in five American Indian and Alaska Native women will experience violence in her lifetime.

More than half will experience sexual violence in her lifetime.

Nearly half have been stalked in her lifetime.

Native women are 1.7, that's nearly twice as likely as white women to have experienced violence in the past year, and in some areas they are 10 times more likely to be murdered.

It is not an exaggeration nor is it an understatement to say that the portrayal of native women as being subject to white men is a direct correlation with how native women are treated in this country and why there's an epidemic of native women, of indigenous women being murdered and going missing on native land

There's not one square inch of dirt in native land which we are on at this very moment.

We are on the land of the Monacan Nation.

There's not one square inch of native land on which a native person should feel uncomfortable.

There's not one image where the descendants of that native person should feel uncomfortable and feel uneasy and feel sick looking at it.

No descendant should have to hide the image of their ancestor from their own children.

This was a public meeting and when I walked in, there may be empty seats now, but when I walked in at 9 a.m. this morning, I had to search for a seat and somebody had to say, those seats over there that are reserved for staff, we have everybody here, it's okay to sit there.

Those were the only seats available when I walked in.

So to say this was somehow hidden from the public is a complete mischaracterization.

I also have here before me the meeting notice which includes from 1.32pm wrap up and finalizing steps moving forward.

If that is not a declaration of intent to establish a procedure for moving forward, I don't know what is.

And if the resolution before you today is not laying out those steps, I don't know what is.

What does

Establish steps moving forward look like if it is not a vote on a resolution on how we plan to move forward.

There's no allocation here.

No one can accuse you of not giving sufficient notice.

We have been told by council that it is in order

It is within the rules and constitution bylaws to go forward with a vote on a resolution as long as we are not allocating a certain amount of funds and as long as certain other conditions are met.

And with those conditions in consideration, they have drafted the resolution before you today.

So it is not only in order, but it is imperative for the thousands, nay millions of native women who have died at the hands of men like Lewis and Clark, George Rogers Clark, Thomas Jefferson.

The policies implemented by those men and not all of them were bad actors.

As we have heard, Lewis and Clark have established a friendship with Sacajawea and that must also be remembered and respected but some of the policies that their expedition brought about led to the death and the displacement and the oppression of millions of native people

It was because of the exploration that in part Indian removal was possible because had the Louisiana Purchase not taken place and had the exploration not taken place, there would not have been no land to remove the Cherokee, the Chickasaw, the Choctaw, the Muscogee Creek Nation and the Seminole Nation and some of the other smaller tribes that were removed between 1835 on

Those people would not have anywhere to have been removed to.

So it was through Meriwether Lewis and Mr. Clark, it was through their expedition that that was possible.

So how long?

We have been waiting 200 years for justice.

This statue has been up for 100 years now.

How much longer must Native people wait for justice to be enacted?

When I look at that statue as a Native person, I see that I am not welcome here.

I am not wanted.

I should not exist in this place because this is a place of white supremacy and my ancestors were not welcome here.

They were forced to walk over a thousand miles.

My great-great-great-great grandmother died shortly after arriving in Indian Territory.

I have stories of my ancestors struggling to survive and it is through allotment that millions of acres of Indian land was stripped from tribal control.

How much longer should we have to wait?

We have been on this continent for tens of thousands of years.

We shouldn't have to wait until Monday for a simple resolution, just establishing a plan.

It has been duly noticed to the public that there was going to be a discussion.

It has been noticed to the public that there was going to be a plan enacted.

I may be the only person in this room foolish enough to follow an act like that.

That was beautifully put.

I just want to say that the overwhelming thing to me is that you are here.

That they have traveled all this way and that they specifically asked that a decision be made today.

That's what they asked.

Grace's story about differences just really hit home.

It's beautiful.

And Councilor Galvin, I recognize our difference on this.

And it's a tough one.

But I have been paying attention to council meetings for years.

And it's been my observation that once you survey the facts very carefully, you investigate things carefully, but once you make up your mind, you seldom change it.

and you've all expressed a resolve today.

I thought I heard you express a resolve that you want to do this, that you want to move the statue.

And what is a resolution?

It's an expression of resolve.

That's just a formal expression of something you've already said.

I can't imagine anything that can happen between today and Monday, anything that anybody could say to you.

that would change your mind.

And I can imagine that you will have unhappy constituents if you agree to this resolution today.

But they're going to be unhappy if you agree to it Monday.

Thank you.

Hi, I'm Susan Menasian.

In 31 years of ordained ministry, there have been many times when I have needed to make the pastoral care decision over doctrine.

I understood this to be a public meeting.

And what I have learned over time in asking questions is that there have been many opportunities for people to have conversations about this.

I also come from a confessional church where confession in the United Church of Christ is almost like a sacrament because that's a part of telling truth and that leads to healing.

I want to also say that it sounds like

This is, I'm not a lawyer.

I don't know.

I almost want to say wouldn't the Monacan nation have eminent domain and could make the decision without anybody else in this room.

I want to say have no fear.

because you have done the work and you have a way that the one who did go to law school has shown that there is language that has the grace and gives you agency in such a time as this.

I would say don't be afraid because the reason these other ways of doing things are in place is to give you an opportunity when you know in your conscience and in your heart that it's the right thing to do.

they're not really I mean it's not asking for anything that in essence you weren't that from what I heard you're going to do it anyway because of what you have in the plan so in some ways

you kind of already have decided that it's got to move all right I mean it's not going to stay in the same space anyway it has to be moved for whatever it is you're going to do to happen anyway and so you're you're just kind of reaffirming what you've already affirmed I think that's going to happen

Now what happens after it's moved is something for you to discuss.

On that note I just want to say I hope that you will not use this as an opportunity for a Heinz 57.

This is not an opportunity to have a one-size-fits-all memorial.

If you do that

then anyway please don't do that but I just want to say that if you are concerned about process and God knows the past week I've heard enough about process in this country don't let that the process is in place he's sitting right there and has come up with this in a way that allows you to do the right thing I am glad that you care about this having

Legitimacy.

I am glad that you care that the decisions that you make are good decisions of integrity and authenticity.

I am glad that you think that way and want it to be that way.

And nobody here is asking you to do it in any other way than that.

We're still in suspension.

May I make one comment?

There seems to be a confusion that my concern about process is fear.

It is not fear.

I do think there is something to be concerned about when we break process too much.

I think we are seeing that at the national level.

When we break process and procedures for the sake of something or other, it can cause problems.

However, there is the content.

There is the process and then there's the substance.

And that's the two are before us today.

And there's been compelling public statement.

And in the scale that I'm looking at, the substance is clearly winning out.

I will vote for this today.

I have a concern about process.

I think we always have to be aware of process, but I am saying now that the substance of the matter outweighs that concern about process, because we are indeed going out of process.

And I would like to make sure that we still read this on Monday night in some way if we change.

Not that we vote on it, but we need to make it to a broader audience what we did on this day.

Is that legal?

So thank you for the time to make this statement and I wanted to make sure

This was not out of fear.

This was of real concern about my responsibility as an elected official, where process can be often abused.

This is not that case.

I want to make sure it was beyond reproach because, yes, it will get challenged.

But that was not a reflection of my disrespect or disbelief.

I believed everything you shared with us today, and it hit me to the core.

But I do believe at this point in time the substance does overrule the process.

Thank you, Councilor Galvin.

All right.

All in favor?

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

All right.

Great.

La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la.

La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la.

And in our traditional way that's when we have victory.

And in our traditional way we always come bearing gifts.

and regardless of the situation, regardless if we're coming to battle.

So for the mayor, the mayor, may your thoughts be like a butterfly.

May you always chase, you know, butterflies are beautiful.

May you always chase the beautiful and the good.

I give you this for your telephone to remind you that we were here.

It's for your phone, pop socket.

OK, and for the gentlemen that came late, I want you to make sure you sign every good thing, everything that's always good.

Being Cherokee, Osia, Salagi, we're going to ask that of you.

All right, thank you.

And for the two lovely ladies that listen to us and for your beautiful blue eyes that I've been looking into, may you shine before others in whatever choices that you make.

May your ears always hear the good things.

And for the lady at the end, I want to say I'm very proud of you today as a woman.

And again, may you shine before others.

that Luluween, which is what we call it, some people they call it Lili, depending on what tribe you're from, but really what we do that is not only in victory but in gratitude.

So when any of your, yeah, gratitude, thankfulness, because when you do that is when

You might have had a war party sent out, or you might have sent somebody out hunting, and when you see them return, you would, because you saw them again, and that's your gratitude.

That's like a call to all of creation, and all of the cosmos can hear your gratitude.

So that's what that was.

And to the lawyer.

There's great orators, and you orate it perfectly with your paper.

If you come forward, we'd like to put a pin on you.

You get pinned.

He deserves a little taller and a little bit taller.

And I know this is different than any city council meeting that you've been to.

The Buffalo's helped us to survive.

Should we bring your images?

This is a young man who's one of the best beaters on our reservation.

This is an image that he had.

He's now beating for the top singers and rappers in the country.

Oh, you want me to rap?

Put it on your card.

Bruno Mars.

Bruno Mars and Ice Cube.

I can give you a little of that if you want me to.

Vinny's, and she got water from the river.

And then there's a beautiful lady, a beautiful lady, who we've been working with.

This is for your next Saturday night.

And for the Monacan ladies.

And the men we have will have

We have Sage for you.

Wear this, sister.

And for the gentleman, we have Sage.

We'll give that to you.

We'd like to thank you for having the vision.

You led us on the warpath in a good war.

for right and for justice for 10 years.

Thank you.

And Chief, lead blessings, strength in your center in all the four directions.

May the creator bless you with health, that your blood flows in a good way.

Everything is good with your home and your heart.

Everything around you.

I would also like to add, we also have some gifts for our guests.

I would just like to add that the decision that was made today I would like to thank you from the bottom of my heart

For our ancestor, it was freedom.

Freedom from being oppressed on that statue.

That's the action you took.

And for all the people, Indian people that have suffered, it's freeing us.

And again, thank you.

And we're looking forward to seeing that removed.

My grandfather met this man here.

These gifts that we're giving the baskets.

Oh, wonderful.

A lot of young ladies would do that.

Wow.

The piece of pottery I've got here, one of my young ladies made this, and she works in the natural woods, if you ever get her for a living.

Thank you.

Mayor Walker, I'd like to request that all future presentations come with gifts.

If they could bring forth gifts following today, that would be most appropriate.

Or not.