City Council   6/5/2017

you

I like the way you caught yourself, though.

After watching Wonder Woman.

That's great.

Did you go with the girls, or did you do it?

It looks like I was right.

It looks like I was right.

Okay, good evening everyone.

I'm calling this meeting of Charlottesville City Council to order.

Mr. Fenwick?

Here.

Mr. Bellamy?

Here.

Mr. Signer?

Here.

Ms. Szakos?

Here.

Ms. Galvin?

OK, we'll start with awards, recognitions, and announcements.

If we could begin from our youngest young citizen there.

OK, I just have one, and welcome everybody.

This is an announcement about the voter registrar's office.

Applications for mailed absentee ballots must be received by the voter registrar by 5 PM on Tuesday, June 6.

That's tomorrow.

The office will be open until 5 PM that day only.

Voters may apply online at vote.virginia.gov.

Virginia is capitalized.

Signed absentee applications may be faxed to 970-3249 or scanned or photographed, then emailed to the registrar at vote.sharltsville.org.

Absentee voters must have an acceptable reason to vote absentee.

Travel illness is listed on the application.

Voted absentee ballots must be received by the electoral board by 7 p.m. on election day, June 13th.

Eligible city registered voters may vote absentee in the city voter registration office during office hours, normally 8 30 a.m. to 4 30 p.m. Monday through Friday.

Saturday, June 10 is the last day for in-person absentee voting and the office will be open on Saturday, 8 30 to 4 30 p.m.

In person absentee voters must show a photo ID.

The voter registration office is in the city hall annex next to the pavilion.

Parking validation is available.

On Election Day, Tuesday, June 13, all polling places will be open from 6 a.m. until 7 p.m.

Voters must show a photo ID.

Voters who do not have an acceptable ID may apply for a free photo ID in the voter registration office whenever the office is open, including 6 a.m. to 7 p.m. on Election Day.

After the polls, each voter will have to indicate which party's ballot they want, and they vote in either party's primary, but not in both.

Primary ballots contain the names of candidates for contested party nominations.

Independent candidates are not on the primary ballots.

Write-in votes are not allowed in Virginia primaries.

Please call the voter registration office at 970-3250 if you have any other questions.

OK, and I'll do two here.

I've been with a really, really sad one for the city.

This is a proclamation about Ms. Jean Zierle, who I knew being on the board of social services, which is one of the appointments that I have as a member of city council.

And she passed away recently, and this is about her.

And I understand they're

There will, sir, but we have a sign-up procedure here.

There's still, we have a sign-up for this.

I think there's still one, is there still one spot, Ms. Rice, one spot?

So we have one spot available for signing up in person for the public comment.

The sign-up sheet is right here.

It's the other one right here.

Okay.

Any other family members?

Whereas Jean Zierle retired to the city of Charlottesville after a career in social work in which she envisioned and worked to bring about a world where all children can develop in peaceful and supportive families and communities.

Charlotte City Council appointed Ms. Zierle to serve on the Charlotte Department of Social Services Advisory Board and whereas in the past five years Ms. Zierle served as both a member and vice chair of the Social Services Advisory Board, sharing her insights, social work experience and expertise with the board and the director of social services and whereas Ms. Zierle always supported social services staff

Focusing on their work environment and their ability to provide quality services for adults, families, and children in the city of Charlottesville and whereas Ms. Zeerle devoted over 2,700 hours of volunteer time with Piedmont Court appointed special advocate CASA, a non-profit organization, whereas as a CASA volunteer Ms. Zeerle tirelessly and persistently advocated for the 18 children she represented, never being afraid to ask the tough questions

she as needed to determine what was in the best interest of the children and whereas Ms. Zierle participated in the planning process to establish Seaville Village,

a movement to help adults age in place with the assistance of neighbors and their neighborhood.

Now, therefore, the Charlottesville City Council hereby commemorates and celebrates the life of Jean Zierle for her tireless efforts to improve the quality of life for those young and old and the excellent public service she provided to our community.

Signed and sealed this fifth day of June, 2017.

I'd like to take a moment of silence before Miss Kukniew, if you'd be interested in speaking for a second.

I'd just like to say that Jean was battling a valiant battle with cancer and the week before she died she was at our advisory board meeting

contributing with everything she had.

And I also say that Jean never had anybody she didn't know.

Once she met you, you were a friend.

There were no strangers in her life, and she welcomed everybody.

No matter what their standing was in society, no matter what their faith, their color, she just welcomed everyone into her circle of friends.

So you were either family or friends with Jean,

and she loved this community and she faithfully served this community.

And so I thank City Council for this proclamation and I'll make sure copies get to her family members.

And then one more proclamation.

June is LGBTQ Pride Month.

To celebrate, Charlottesville Pride is holding a potluck picnic this Saturday at Washington Park, 2 to 6 p.m.

and a peace march on Sunday from 10 a.m. to noon from the ICS Art Park to the Free Speech Wall in concert with Pride marches around the world at that same date and time for solidarity and equality.

Charlottesville Pride issued the following statement about the march.

We are marching in solidarity with the National Equality March for Unity and Pride taking place in Washington, D.C. at the same time along with similar events around the world.

The purpose of this action is to peacefully mobilize and clearly address concerns about the current

political landscapes that are contributing to the persecution and discrimination against LGBTQ plus individuals.

We march to give voice to our concerns and support, uplift, and bring attention to those in our communities who are targeted due to immigration status, ethnicity, religion, skin color, gender, and or disability.

We affirm and celebrate that we are a mix of diverse communities.

Progress has been made over the past decade in the ongoing fight for LGBTQ plus

Inclusion, Access and Justice, but there's still so much more to be done, especially since the progress we've achieved is currently being threatened by increasingly hostile rhetoric, discriminatory policies, and violence perpetrated against the most vulnerable in our communities.

You can clap.

And a final personal note, I hold monthly office hours the first week of the month after the first council meeting.

So this week will be Wednesday 12 o'clock to 1 o'clock noon in my office here at City Hall.

If you'd like, you can just show up, but if you'd like a slot in advance, you can contact Page Rice at RiceP at Charlottesville.org or you can call her at 434-970-3113.

So 12 to 1 p.m. at

in the second floor office right here in the City Hall.

Good evening, everyone.

Good evening.

That doesn't count for you.

Good evening, everyone.

There we go.

Much better, much better.

So we have something that I am extremely proud to present tonight, a pillar of our community for 100 years now.

and tonight I would like for you all to join not only myself but City Council in the proclamation to Bell Funeral Home.

And JF Bell Funeral Home is celebrating 100 years of providing exceptional funeral services in the Charlottesville area founded by John Ferris Bell Sr., a graduate of Hampton Institute who taught tailoring at Lincoln University and later became a mortician in Chicago.

He opened his business in 1917 with his wife Maude

which was originally located on Vinegar Hill at 275 West Main Street in a two-story brick building and later moved into the current building which John F. Bell Sr. had built as a funeral parlor at 106th Street in the Starr Hill District in 1922.

The Bell family is very civic-minded and they have served on various boards and organizations.

They have made a positive difference in the lives of many residents.

Mr. Martin is a board member of the Charlottesville Albemarle Chamber of Commerce,

recipient of the Paul Goodlow McIntire Citizenship Award.

Both Deborah and Martin are recipients of the Central Virginia Minority Business Association Pioneer Award, Alpha Kappa Alpha Spirit Award for Business by Eta Phi Omega Chapter of Charlottesville.

and in 2015, the Charlottesville Chamber Diversity Business Council established the John F. Bell Senior Vanguard Award, which is held annually.

JF Bell Funeral Home is a member of the Virginia Morticians Association and the National Funeral Directors and Morticians Association.

I'm Deborah Burks and I'm the spokesperson for the Bell family tonight.

We would just like to thank Vice Mayor Wes Bellamy and City Council for this proclamation.

We are humbled that we are being recognized tonight.

We are grateful that JFL Funeral Home has achieved this milestone and that my husband and I were entrusted with the legacy that my grandfather

John Ferris Bell, my dad Henry Bell, my two uncles John Bell and Raymond Bell left.

I wish my grandfather could be here today to see this.

I'm sure he's looking down on us.

He stated many times that one of his greatest joys in life was to know that what he had worked and sacrificed for will continue

after he was gone.

My father and his brothers stated that they wanted to continue serving this community with honesty, dignity and efficiency.

My husband and I want to continue to give the families we serve more than what they anticipate and to contribute time, resources and ideas

to help this community to continue to be a great place to live and work.

Thank you.

Excuse me.

Mr. Bellamy, with the little voice that I have left, I'd just like to add a personal testimonial.

I think I may be the only person up here who

I actually had a family funeral at Bell Funeral Home and when my mom was there a friend of hers who was from Korea and didn't know American customs around death showed up and wanted to see her and they treated her so well and you know made her feel welcome and she never knew that it was an odd thing to ask and I just really am grateful for that and for all of the professional work that you do in our community.

He's a member of the wrong fraternity, but I won't get him started.

I won't start there today.

Good, brother.

Thank you all for all that you do.

Two more very quick announcements.

This one is from the Jefferson School African American Heritage Center.

On Friday, June 16th, as well as Saturday, June 17th, there will be the 17th annual Juneteenth Celebration of Freedom.

at the Jefferson School African American Heritage Center on Friday the 16th.

They will be recognizing 12 different local heroes who have all

paid their time, put in a great deal of community work here in the city of Charlottesville, and they are considered legends of sorts.

So please be sure to come out if you can.

And on Saturday, June 17th, we'll be having the Juneteenth Jam, in which we will have local artists, including Mae Michelle, Big Lean, and several others who will be performing.

So I hope to see you all there.

moving forward.

Also, Alexander's ninth annual summer event, Moving to Greatness Think Shop.

That will be Thursday, June 29th, 2017 at 10 30 a.m. And again, that'll be Thursday, June 29th, 2017 from 10 30 a.m. to noon at the Burley Middle School Auditorium, which is located at 901 Rose Hill Drive.

It's free.

Parents and youth are welcome, and the highlights will include a drum call by Brother Whit, hip-hop producer and performer Jay Will, Phenon, Ella Mars, as well as other individuals, prizes, and more.

And last but not least, before I leave, I want to say big ups and a big shout out to all of my brothers and sisters from the LGBTQ community.

Happy Pride Month.

I wear my bracelet every day, and I hope it's almost time for another one.

So this is the next proclamation and they gave this to me for a reason.

I think they're trying to tell me something about my diet.

Because this is about Men's Health Month.

Whereas despite advances in medical technology and research, men continue to live an average of five years less than women

with Native American and African American men having the lowest life expectancy.

And whereas educating the public and healthcare providers about the importance of a healthy lifestyle and early detection of male health problems will result in reducing rates of mortality from disease.

And whereas men who are educated about the value that preventive health can play in prolonging their lifespan

and their roles as productive family members will be more likely to participate in health screenings and whereas fathers who maintain a healthy lifestyle are role models for the children and have happier, healthier children and whereas the Men's Health Month website has been established at www.menshealthmonth.org and features resources, proclamations and information about awareness events and activities

including Wear Blue for Men's Health.

And whereas the City of Charlottesville's Men's Health Month will focus on a broad range of men's health issues including heart disease, mental health, diabetes, prostate, testicular and colon cancer.

And whereas the citizens of this city are encouraged to increase awareness of the importance of a healthy lifestyle, regular exercise and medical checkups.

Good enough.

It was because you're our example, Bob.

It was not.

Any further announcements?

Okay.

We now move on to board and commission appointments.

I move the following appointments.

Place Design Task Force, Rachel Lloyd and Andrew Mondeshine, Tree Commission, Laura Knott, and for the Youth Council.

Just as I second that, just a clarification, those were their elementary schools.

They're not all in elementary school now.

And I second.

That's a second.

Any further discussion?

All in favor?

Carries five to zero.

OK, we now move on to matters of the public.

This is our first matters of the public session.

We welcome public comment.

I'll read the rules that we read

Every meeting, it's an important part of our meeting.

Time is reserved near the beginning and at the end of each regular city council meeting for matters by the public.

If you're here to speak for a public hearing, please wait to speak on the matter until the report for that item has been presented and the public hearing has been opened.

And we have three, four public hearings tonight.

The sign up sheets for those are right here.

Those are, nobody's signed up yet, but

We'd love for you to.

Each speaker has three minutes to speak.

Please give your name and address before beginning your remarks.

Please do not interrupt speakers whether or not you agree with them.

I'll now read the, this is rule nine of our governing procedures.

Improper comments and disorderly conduct are not permitted.

Persons appearing before the council may not use this platform to

campaign for public office, promote private business ventures, use profanity or vulgar language or gestures, threaten violence toward council, city staff or members of the public, engage in behavior that intimidates others, interrupt other speakers, or engage in behavior that disrupts the meeting.

Rule 10, any speaker who violates the rules will be called to order by the mayor.

If the remarks or conduct persists, the mayor shall order.

the speaker to cease speaking and be seated.

If the order is not heeded, the mayor shall direct the sergeant-at-arms to escort the individual from the meeting room.

We have some friendly public members of Charlottesville's finest back here in the back of the room.

We hope not to introduce them to anybody speaking here.

There are a couple of items that have been bubbling in the city recently that folks will be speaking about tonight, but we need to maintain these rules in the order of a

a call meeting where we do the people's business here on the dais.

So we will be enforcing these rules, but if everyone pays attention to them, then we'll be able to get through.

We now have 15 public comments.

We used to have 12 under the old rules, so we've added some.

So we've got 10 folks who signed up in advance, and we have another five who signed up in person tonight.

So with all that said, I'm going to get started with the list.

Good evening.

My name is M. Rick Turner.

I live in the city of Charlottesville.

After centuries of lies and untruth, they're slowly beginning to fade.

These lies have been told so often that many accept them as the truth.

They shape our everyday behavior.

They confuse our identity.

They sap our strength.

They appear in our homes, our parks, our schools, and textbooks.

They distort our historical memory, leaving us disabled and spiritually empty.

This is what happens when you lie, when you live a lie.

They tell us that the oppressive reality of black life in America

We stand together to reject this false narrative in the sense that our children learn the truth about American history.

The speech given by the mayor of New Orleans, Mitch Landry on May 19th, might help us set the record straight.

He explained about why he along with the city council of New Orleans and citizens of New Orleans made the city's public landscape.

He removed, they removed four Confederate monuments from the city public landscape.

If you read the speech, you learn that those monuments

were removed for the same reason the Robert E. Lee monument should be removed from Lee Park.

Just one of the reasons why they should be removed because they are symbols of white supremacy and terror.

Some will argue that removing monuments won't work, that it's too costly.

that it will hardly make a difference in changing the minds and hearts of those who think that Robert E. Lee was a patriot.

I agree that it will take more time and effort to change hearts and minds, but meanwhile, we must take a stand for our children and grandchildren.

Mayor Landry's speech, which many, many are having as historic

makes me wonder what our children are learning in schools across the country.

Dr. Turner, we have rules here.

Dr. Turner, sir, you're out of time and I've got 14 other people.

I've got 14 other people.

Thank you.

And to avoid me having to be the bad guy with friends such as Dr. Turner, the yellow light here is when you're down close to the end of your time and the red light is when you're out of three minutes and it will do the dinging, dinging, dinging.

Excuse me, but I'd also just like to suggest that when people clap and make noise, it slows it down so he loses time.

And that's worked very well in meetings in the past.

So, if everyone could, nodding, that would be very helpful for us.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Szakos.

Anyway, my name is Kenneth Jackson.

I live at 1534 A.

But I'm here to talk to you about unity in this community.

You guys are lucky enough to be the only city council that this city has actually went to hell on.

I mean, I'm being honest with you.

You have groups sitting back here talking about Black Lives Matter and everything else and they have been evil, they have been nasty.

Now I don't agree with hate groups at all.

I don't care if it's the far right or the far left.

Last time I was here I got cussed out by a couple of them going out the door.

I was accosted by some of them out when y'all took break.

You're generating

An atmosphere of hate and intolerance.

You can't sit there and ask for equality and you don't give it yourself.

You, Mr. Mayor, are the figurehead of Charlottesville.

To come out and speak about against one hate group and not all of them is wrong.

Hate is hate regardless of which way you go.

We live in America where you have a right to think and feel the way you want.

I mean that's the Constitution.

You do not have the right to be stopped.

You do not have the right to be intimidated by anyone just because they disagree.

And then we think they were so godly.

This isn't godly.

We need to learn how to discuss things.

They put down our police department.

These men and women

of all races who put their life on the line every day and you dare allow them to call them Nazis and all that.

I mean really you're showing how immature you are by not even allowing me to finish speaking.

But you're not the only one involved.

But see you guys allow this to go on and you think it's cute.

And another thing, why don't you go into the black community and find out what they think.

If you think you know so much about us, go in.

Find out what most of us think.

We don't care about that statue.

We've got family.

We've got homes we'd like to buy.

There are things we like to do.

We have bigger and better fish to fry than to worry about a statue.

Charlottesville has never been like this.

Never.

And many of you haven't even been here long enough to really know what Charlottesville is like.

but I'm going to say this, you need to say any kind of hate is not wanted here.

Thank you.

Paul Nelson.

Listen, we cannot have interruptions when people are speaking.

We need to have everybody be able to speak whether you agree with them or not.

That's the rules here.

I want everybody to be on notice about that.

We have the officers and you'll be escorted out because we do have to be able to get through and those are our rules.

We're going to apply them equally.

So the hand gestures are very, very, very helpful.

Hello everyone.

My name is Paul Nelson.

Sir, you may want to get closer to the microphone.

Okay, I'll start over.

My name is Paul Nelson and I currently live at 765 Denali Way in apartment 202.

Really what I have listed here, I really just wanna go ahead and get straight to the point.

I don't wanna be labor.

So my goal for coming here is to see you all really take care of people that are homeless or have various types of disabilities.

It's very important for this community to take care of that demographic of Charlottesville citizens.

and I think if you guys really come together we can see the issue resolved.

We'd like to see for that population of individuals with disabilities funding provided for them so that they can get housing here within the city of Charlottesville.

Now it's been my experience thus far, excuse me, this has not been my experience thus far.

And I will say that it's pretty heart wrenching the level, the lack of support that these individuals are receiving.

The ability to get support for funding, support for getting food stamps is just not present here in the city.

And we've had enough and I'm tired of seeing it.

And I'm asking that you all just do what is right as pertaining to this issue.

So whenever a problem shows up in Charlottesville, it needs to be brought to you all, and we expect you all to take an active approach to have it resolved.

Now understand, coming from the perspective of a deaf person, whether I'm deaf or blind, it doesn't matter.

I speak as a general citizen of Charlottesville.

I should have equal access to all of the resources as anyone else in the city.

So some would say that it's a waste to invest this amount of money in individuals that have these disabilities, such as deafness or blindness, but it's more so an investment just in the general citizens of the city.

So continuing to belabor the issue and go back and forth is a complete waste of time.

I'm not going to go ahead and read verbatim, but I really just want to put out the facts as it stands.

Again, I'm pretty fed up with this issue, so I just wanted to bring this to you that I'm tired of seeing it.

It's been going on for much too long.

Thank you.

I view that as a direct death threat and the people who created these are in the process of being subpoenaed

and

different opinions about, but I would never advocate your death.

Your useful idiots are getting more aggressive and violent.

Guys, we gotta, if anybody makes, the coughing has gotta stop, I'll ask you to be escorted, and if anybody makes, and please halt the time, you'll have to leave.

From Serge getting two inches from our faces and screaming, blocking our avenue of escape and other tactics.

According to the Commonwealth Attorney, this can be deemed an assault, and as a disabled man,

If I perceive that I am under assault, I will use any means necessary to protect myself or any of my friends or family.

All right, even this singing, I'm going to have to suspend the meeting.

We're not going to be able to get through to the naming.

OK, should we suspend the meeting?

We need to just get through.

Make them leave.

You would throw me out.

There's too many people for me to.

OK, we're going to have to send the meeting.

That's what we're going to have to do.

It's so humid here.

It's not me.

This is like something out of school.

I mean, we're adults here, and we need to get through a business, a meeting.

We have regular rules for everybody speaking.

Everybody's entitled to speak in front of city council.

Those are the rules of this body.

If we're not able to do this, we are going to start to have to kick people out.

I don't enjoy doing this.

We're grown-ups here, for the most part.

So let's kind of get this business done, OK?

We have business to do tonight.

We have the naming of the statutes to get to.

We've got important things.

But if everybody holds this up, we're just not going to be able to get to it.

All right, sir?

OK, this is ridiculous.

Officers, if you all could occupy down in the front row so you can, this is like adolescent.

OK, all right, so let's go.

Would you tell the cops to stand by and watch a stalker scream and taunt a woman two inches from her face?

Are you telling me that you condone behavior similar to stalking?

Because it seems the cops have been told explicitly or have the impression that they are to allow this behavior under threat of disciplinary action, possibly from the top.

Where does free speech rights end and my personal space rights begin?

Is it at two inches or two feet?

Would you feel threatened if someone did it to you?

Does the political ideology behind the behavior justify their actions?

I sometimes wonder why these useful idiots don't see how they are being used as pawns by ones in charge who don't have the courage

to stand on the front lines with them but stand back in the shadows while they get charged and ruin their lives.

Can I continue?

Yes.

It's like a bunch of mind-numb robots who have no minds of their own.

Resentments and animosities are growing louder and more intense because there is no discussion.

You disregard the will of the people to satisfy some sense of white guilt.

I'd like to end with some advice in the form of a quote from Wes Bellamy.

This is this is the city.

This is freedom of speech in the City Council of Charlottesville.

Everyone deserves to be heard unless they violate our rules.

That is freedom.

OK, so that it's not violating rights right now.

That's a freedom of speech is about.

So, guys, OK, I'm going to have to ask.

OK, I need to move along with the meeting.

Anybody have anything else they want to say?

Because we're going to start removing folks.

OK, so you need to ma'am.

You need to leave because you're speaking out of what I just said.

If anybody has

Okay, do you, I just, okay, I will say that nobody has, no, no, yes, I'm taking that back.

That was an error.

That was an error.

So we're going to move forward.

If anybody violates the rules that we have from this point on, you're going to be removed.

Okay, officers are right here.

We're ready to go.

Anybody?

Okay, so that's one.

So you've been called to order under our rules.

Do you have anything else?

Okay, now I've called you to order, ma'am.

Okay, if either of you two say anything else, you're going to be removed, out of order.

Officers, ready to go?

Okay, everybody ready?

Hands ready?

My name is Jason Kessler.

I've lived in the city of Charlottesville for over 10 years.

I was born here.

My family are from here.

My ancestors are Confederate veterans.

I believe in the First Amendment.

I believe in the right for people to peaceably assemble and speak their minds.

Everyone else in the city of Charlottesville except for right wing people, white people, and Confederate supporters are allowed these rights.

We do not go to any black people or brown people and tell them where they can eat at night.

We do not harass them where they live.

We do not post their addresses where they have young children living.

We don't post the names of their businesses to try to get them fired.

This is ridiculous behavior.

It's hyperbolic.

It's out of control.

And these people are talking about a peaceful rally that happened on May 13, which was protected by the First Amendment.

And they talk about the KKK.

Excuse me.

When I think of the KKK, I think of people who are harassing people where they have young children telling them.

All right.

OK. Officers, we're going to have to remove.

Everybody here is doing this.

All right, let's take a little break.

So this meeting, everyone, is going to take a lot longer tonight, probably because of these tactics.

Okay you just answered my question but if you say one more thing I've called you to order then you'll have to be ejected as well.

Trying to enforce the orders as equally as I can here a difficult job.

Trying to do best I can.

Okay.

All right, we took our break.

Anybody else?

If there's future breaking the rules, we'll do the same drill again.

We'll do it as long as we have to.

Again, don't want to do this.

We want to get through to our business.

This gives much more of a platform people you disagree with than the alternative.

So we got another minute and 50 seconds here on Mr. Kessler's call.

This is not an exchange, ma'am.

This is not an exchange.

You're out of order and speaking from the floor.

So the rules of our chamber is that you have to be recognized by the chair of the meeting to speak.

So that's a violation of the rules, too.

So I called you to order.

If it happens again, you'll have to leave as well.

OK.

As I was saying, everyday you guys come up here and talk about black people, you talk about gay people, you don't give a damn about white people.

And white people have a right to organize and advocate for our rights as well.

You people are implementing

policies which are displacing us in our home countries and we will not be allowed to survive.

You don't even recognize our right to exist.

And people like Councillors Szakos and Bellamy have directly worked with ANTIFA, who are groups who have advocated violence against police officers, who have advocated overthrowing the government, who have advocated violence, and none of you have condemned that activity.

The alt-right did not harass or attack anybody on the 13th.

Your people, Mr. Bellamy, were attacking my friend who's not even white and I had to go there and support him because any of my friends who are not white who come out to support me, you call them Uncle Toms and all this stuff.

So who are the racists here?

Okay?

I support white people, but I don't have anything against anybody else.

And you guys can't get that through your heads.

I have a right to organize.

I have a right to have friends.

I have a right for them to

who gather in peace and use their First Amendment rights and your supporters, your Antifa supporters do not agree with that.

We're going to have a rally on August 12th.

It's going to be open to anybody who wants to come and support right wing policies.

We're not going to live in intimidation and fear from these people who are the anti-white KKK.

Surge is the anti-white KKK.

for Renwood.

OK, we're going to have to say, everyone now, you've been called to order, sir.

You've been called to order.

You're going to have to leave.

You won't get to enjoy the rest of the meeting.

Good evening.

My English name is Karen Wood.

My American Indian name is Yapiyukiniwin, which means living language woman.

I'm here to welcome all of you to our homeland and to note that for hundreds of years, our people haven't been asked to speak.

I'm here to speak on one very specific issue tonight, and that is about the renaming of one of the parks.

It's been suggested that it be called Monacan Park only because our people

want to be heard, am I speaking?

We haven't been invited to talk to you for a very long time.

And we've had a long-term dialogue with UVA that hasn't resulted in very much from my perspective.

I've been involved in it for 14 years.

So what I really want to say, first of all, is that I feel embarrassed by all of what I've seen tonight.

I'm not a resident of the city of Charlottesville.

I live in Flubana and there's a reason for that.

Monacan people don't live here for historic and economic reasons.

But we aren't filled with hatred.

We have been a welcoming people for a really long time.

The notion of naming is important and that's what constitutes my name, living language woman, is about words.

So the words that we choose to connote what's important in our communities matter.

It says what matters to us.

and however you decide to deal with that.

You're the City Council.

You all are the residents of Charlottesville.

I'm not.

What I'm here to say is that we would be pleased if you chose our name for one of your parks, but we can't say that we're honored until we're part of a respectful dialogue.

And we don't have that right now.

We don't have any dialogue at all.

We would like that.

You know, our people have a bridge named for them in Lynchburg, which is where our homeland is now.

So far I've heard a lot of talk about two statues and two parks.

For American Indians, there are two other statues in Charlottesville, the one with Sacajawea crouching behind the men she was giving directions to, and the one where George Rogers Clark is threatening some native people with a powder keg and some rifles on the corner.

Neither of those have been part of this discussion, and I don't really care whether you take them down or not.

What matters to me is how we discuss the way we interpret our story.

We have the past, which is everything that happened.

We have the history, which is how we talk about it.

And I think how we commemorate the past says more about us as people now than it does about those folks who were alive back then.

So what are we going to say about those statues, whether we get rid of them or not, that they represented a certain mindset?

You know, maybe things have changed, maybe they haven't.

Sometimes I think they haven't changed so much.

That's it.

Good evening.

So I'm here to talk about the arrest of Veronica and Jeff Fogel this past week and

Everything will be dealt with in court, but how they were arrested is what I want to discuss.

When you have five police officers and paddy wagons showing up at someone's house at night when they could be summons or this could happen during the day, that says a lot about how our police department functions.

And what I want to talk about is if they showed up for Jeff Fogel in that manner, what I've been expressing for years about the damaging

I don't think that any

okayed for someone to show up at his house at 1230 at night and arrest him.

And what does that mean for the people in the community who don't have a voice?

How are their houses entered when their family members, especially children, are there?

And I know how they are entered.

I know the abuse that they have experienced at the hands of officers in this community.

And this is one of the situations that show that.

Jeff Fogel dragged out of his house, Veronica dragged out of her house, and whether they were physically dragged or not.

Nighttime, five police officer, paddy wagon, how do you show up at other people's house?

What are the stories that we never hear about?

And that is part of the problem with the culture of Charlottesville.

Now, people who stand up here and they are okay with their oppression, that's on them.

But the reason that the statues have brought up the concerns

and all of the trauma that it's bringing up is because of issues like this.

And if we don't fix those, we'll never have peace within the community.

Just because people don't know how individuals are treated in this community doesn't mean that it's not happening.

and it takes something like the statue to unearth all those feelings and all those emotions and all those wrongdoings.

And I am not happy that either one of those people were arrested, but I'm happy that I get to come up here and tell the story and tell it to the community so that you all can reflect on how other people in this community are treated by the criminal justice system in Charlottesville.

Hi there, my name is Amanda Corman and I live in the city of Charlottesville.

So I'm here to talk about something that is not topical this week, but I think it is something that's part of our lives all the time, which is mental health and the importance

of Access to Mental Health Services for everyone in our community.

So I work at the Women's Initiative.

We're a nonprofit that provides mental health services to women regardless of their ability to pay and we are celebrating 10 years here in Charlottesville.

and what we do is we offer a place for women to come and receive therapy, a place for women to gather and have support groups and a place for women to find community and build sisterhood in a variety of other ways and we do that with a ton of community support including from the city of Charlottesville which has generously supported us for the last several years and we are very grateful for that.

We recently had a ribbon cutting where we celebrated an expansion of our space at 1101 East High Street and at that time Senator Creed Deeds came and spoke about the importance of mental health services and about the importance of

helping families who are living from crisis to crisis break that cycle of crisis.

And the Senator pointed out that organizations like the Women's Initiative and so many other organizations that we work in partnership with are part of helping to break that cycle because we can help crisis

We can stop crisis before it happens and so the Women's Initiative has walk-in clinics for women three times a week and we offer individual counseling to women regardless of their ability to pay on a sliding scale.

Most women pay five dollars a session or less and those are some of the services that we offer.

May was Mental Health Awareness Month and we marked that by continuing to offer all that we do for women in the community and we also work in partnership with so many other organizations and I just wanted to give

A shout out to the Community Mental Health and Wellness Coalition, which is part of the city.

And there is a new public awareness campaign that is being put on by the coalition called Help Happens Here, which is a public website and information referral service so that anybody who's looking for services for mental health or substance abuse can find the services that they're looking for, and that's Help Happens Here.

Thank you.

Amanda?

Thank you.

Catherine Sadowski.

Not yet, sir.

If you'd like to...

It takes a while for him.

Okay, all right.

Thank you.

I'm Charles Rogers, lately of 1108 Jefferson Street, but recently at 1329 Riverdale Drive at the Riverdale Assisted Living Home.

I'm not a recent retiree in from New Jersey.

I was born here in Charlottesville at Martha Jefferson Hospital in 1934.

I lived here all my life except three years during the Korean War, which I volunteered for.

I worked at Dixie's Textile Mule for a couple of years.

I worked at the Southern Bakery for a couple of years, and then I worked at the Post Office.

I worked at the Post Office for 32 years as a mailman.

So I've been here all my life and I want to speak for the white people, the working people.

I think that Lee and Jackson were dirty traitors.

They was indulging in a racket.

The slavery thing

was a racket because all these people, all these black people came over here, didn't come over here as immigrants.

They were beaten and clubbed and whipped and forced onto slave ships where they were chained into hulls where it got to be 120 degrees for the many, many weeks it took them to get over here to the slave market to the south.

They were stolen property.

Everybody who bought slaves or dealt in slaves were dealing in stolen property.

If you're dealing in stolen property, now you go to jail.

It was a criminal enterprise.

It was precise fascism.

I think that Andersonville was about as bad as Auschwitz.

There was a fascist illegal myth of a disgrace to the country.

Everybody said that Lee was such a wonderful man.

Jackson was so great.

If Lee was any good at all, he would have gone to the legislature in Richmond and tried to talk a middle succession.

But instead, he gave up the opportunity to be the leader of the federal forces, which Lincoln offered him.

He said, no, I must fight for my country.

Virginia was not ever a country.

If most of the

Union boys didn't fight particularly to do away with slavery.

They fought to have their country from being broken to pieces.

That was what Lee and Jack were fighting for.

If they had won, the country would have been fragmented into all kinds of many states, and it wouldn't have been very long before the southern states would have seceded from each other.

I think most of these people wanted to adopt the British system of lords and commoners.

They always thought that the British system was much better than democracy.

If the Confederacy won, we'd have had the Kingdom of Georgia, the Empire of North Carolina,

or the King of Louisiana and all that sort of thing.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Sir, you've hit your three minutes.

I think that they ought to take these statues.

and put them in the University Confederate Cemetery.

But I think that would be just the place for them, because it's hallowed ground.

Thank you.

Thank you.

We need to finish up.

No, sir.

Sir, we need to finish.

We need to finish.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'd like to suggest three people.

Sir.

That's the name of the safe.

General Vandergriff.

Everybody gets three minutes.

Thank you.

Sorry.

Okay.

Mr. Pickett.

Folks, I misspeak at the start.

And this, everybody, this is under an agreement because Mr. Pickett has a disability and this is an agreement with our city attorney that he may play a pre-recorded tape.

I was going to speak tonight about how Starsia and the mayor tried to muzzle me from speaking before city council by telling me that I couldn't use this tape recording system.

I'll save that for another night because I read something today that I'm going to read another person's writings.

goes, permit me to enlighten Miss Starsia and Serge on one of the ways to avoid turning people off from conversations with them.

Stop posting calls on Facebook to form angry mobs to ambush people in public spaces with whom they disagree.

No matter how much Serge may dislike someone's opinions, it has no right to attack that person when he or she is quietly and peacefully interacting within the community.

Why should Serge or any group arrogantly self-assume the mantle of the Thought and Speech Police of Charlottesville?

Mark my words, this group's irresponsible and dangerous tactics will ultimately result in the serious injury or death of someone if it does not stop this pack-like behavior immediately.

It's one thing for surge members to lawfully confront its adversaries in an organized place, but it's quite another to disrupt the atmosphere of the downtown mall necessary for business and employees to earn their livelihood.

or to invade the peace of families who want to enjoy themselves, especially those including small children and senior citizens, without screaming the F bomb around them and raised middle fingers assaulting their sensibilities.

This should not have to be tolerated by anyone.

If surge will not engage in civil discourse, then it should receive the sharp rebuke of elected officials and community leaders.

Yeah, I'm not holding my breath on that one.

And better yet, the refusal of Charlottesville citizens to answer the knock on their doors unless it cleans up its act.

Well, I'm going to add to that that I've yet to hear anybody on city council

inclusive of the mayor, to speak against Serge, Starsia, Vogel, what's that girl's name, Fitzhugh?

What are you holding back for?

I don't quite understand.

You'll speak out against the other side.

Both sides have really irresponsible actions involved with what they do, both extremes.

I'm looking for your responses.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Brian Weimer, 712 Graves.

And I'm about to do something unreasonable.

There's a word that I

become rather fond of.

And that word is love.

I love you.

You're all beautiful.

Okay, now why am I talking about love?

Fifty years ago today, well not today, but this summer, actually probably did start around today, when this country was torn by struggle for civil rights, chaos in Vietnam,

Something kind of crazy happened in San Francisco.

It's called the Summer of Love.

This summer is the 50th anniversary of the Summer of Love.

It was a moment in time that left a legacy of possibility.

You feel it today.

So look back to that time.

It started actually with a concert called Monterey Pop that introduced us to Jimi Hendrix and Janis Joplin.

At ICS this month,

We're calling this Love Month.

It's also Pride Month and we're doing some cool stuff with them.

It's Love Month and we're going to resurrect the ideals of creativity and community and coming together, culminating in a two-day love fest with 40 bands.

And yet, Wes, we're going to sing not Kumbaya, but we're going to have somebody sing the Age of Aquarius and it's a hip-hop band and that's going to be amazing.

Now, I thought that that was the cake, but that's just the icing on the cake, because you know what the cake is?

Us.

You, you, you, you people on TV, we're the cake.

We've got to make this come together with love.

And I know it's a weird word, but it's a great word.

As somebody who once said, all you need is love, and Virginia is for lovers.

Now, I want your support.

and I want you to be there because somebody up in front of me said this was the capital of the resistance.

I thought that was a bold, bold, unreasonable move.

Let's be unreasonable.

Let's love.

How about that?

How about let's love and if we're going to win a culture war, let's win it with culture.

Jelaine Schmidt, 11 Altamont Circle.

Good evening counselors.

Today, tonight, you'll be culminating part of the process that you initiated over a year and a half ago to change the narrative on race in our city.

I like that the word narrative was used because it connotes history.

That is, it's not something that just kind of floats in air, but it has a richness to it, a depth.

I encourage you to look to some of the suggestions that have been made that really speak to that narrative, that history that we want to be changing so that we can embrace a fuller version of ourselves, our history.

And so I wanted to reiterate what Ms. Wood had said earlier, the suggestion for

Renaming our Central Park as Monacan Park to recognize the founders of this area, the original human inhabitants here and to start

re-narrating our history, who we think of as the we, and starting it over again with the original inhabitants.

I'd like to encourage that.

With respect to the Jackson Park, this is the seat of the legal apparatus of our community, the courthouse.

And I would like to suggest that we consider something with respect to our history that pertains to that legal system.

And so it would seem that Emancipation Park and recognizing the history

of African American Freedom would be a good place to recognize that.

So I encourage you to really embrace a feeling of a depth of history.

We have some names attached to these parks now that really only recognize a sliver of four years in our history and I would just encourage us to look at the broad swath of representation of original peoples that have been here and folks that have suffered in

Thank you.

Don Gathers, City of Charlottesville.

I come asking for blessings and peace

And I tell you, if I never see, hear about, or have to discuss another statue ever again in life, I could die a happy man.

During my time as chair of the BRC, I never envisioned us arriving at the point that we're currently occupying.

I don't believe that my fellow commissioners foresaw us dealing with everything that is leaked in from the periphery.

We're talking about dealing with and consuming vast amounts of time on a rock.

Plain and simple, that's what it is, a chunk of rock.

The arguments, fights, hostility that have all been born from this chunk of rock represents various things to various people.

They're complicated by the fact that for the most part supporters on either side have thus far refused to attempt to listen to or hear out the arguments being presented.

The rift that has been erected stands much taller than the statues themselves.

It has torn apart friendships, created divisions within our community, and allowed evilness and wickedness to manifest itself in ways we have not seen in our country in decades.

Visualizations that reasonable-minded people had hoped would never rise to the surface of reality again.

Yet now we're here, and the burning question is now, what do we do next?

There are so many falsehoods that have been espoused, so many lies presented as facts.

So much has been said as well as so much that has been gone unsaid.

Sadly, so many things cannot be taken back.

Things that have happened have stained our city far beyond our borders.

We have made national news and not for the wonderful city and wonderful community that we represent.

As a city, we're better than this.

As citizens, we have to want to be better than this.

As a community, we have to be willing to search for ways to make ourselves better, to make the lives and situations better for all that inhabit our 10.25 square miles.

We have got to, with absolute certainty, learn to listen to each other, to be accepting of differing viewpoints, accepting of each other's feelings.

Realizing that because someone looks at something differently than we do does not necessarily make them wrong or make us right.

We've got to reach the apex of our ability to respect each other.

We must find the drive within ourselves both individually and collectively to arrive at the place where we can all live together, to play together, to work together, yes, to worship together and to pray together.

The very continuance of our future existence depends on this.

The goodwill of our children and their children's future may well be determined by the ways in which we proceed from this point.

If we cannot somehow arrive at a place of peace, of understanding, I'm fearful of where we may ultimately end.

I pray for you.

I pray for the council.

The citizens are crying out for your leadership.

Thank you.

My name is Clifford Hall and I reside at 112 West Market Street, Charlottesville, Virginia.

And I'm here to talk to you tonight about the Charlottesville Coalition for the Homes.

We are a grassroots movement that started roughly a year ago.

and we are here to say that we want to change the social and cultural attachés of the perceived notion of what it is to be homeless.

Moreover, we want to take a homeless man or woman and we want to get them to the point where they have housing, where they are productive members of society, paying taxes, voting, and

of Making a Living and Being a Citizen.

Most of y'all have the vision statement, mission statement, goals and objectives.

If you do not have them, I will get them to you.

Right now we currently have six benchmarks and we are currently

working on those and etching them in the stone as far as what we want to do and how we want to help.

We are not a service provider.

We do want to educate and we do want to promote civil obedience by being productive members of society by taking number one, taking place at the home front

Secondly, actually giving something back to the community by volunteering.

Not a handout, but a hand up.

And that's who we are currently.

Thank you.

OK, that concludes our first matters by the public.

We have another one that ends this meeting after the conclusion of the meeting.

So if folks would like to talk then, that's the same drill.

You have three minutes to say your name and address.

There's no sign-up sheet for that one.

It's just first serve.

I just say what I say.

Usually at the end of these it takes a lot of courage to come up here and speak to us.

We are a little bit higher up here in the dais.

We appreciate greatly what we hear from you.

We also get hundreds and hundreds of emails to us individually, to us as members of council.

We read those very carefully too.

This input and feedback matters a great deal to us.

Any matters that went to a staff response where the staff of the city has something to respond to, Mr. Jones will respond to those the next meeting.

That's the way that we approach that.

Just very briefly, Mayor Signer, there's been a great deal of discussion in regards to what the city intends to do with the homeless population.

and I know that City Manager Jones as well as city staff has been trying to work not only with The Haven and others to try to address this issue.

I can say that we are actually having a meeting, we being the Human Services Director, the National Housing Trust Director, or excuse me, the Virginia State Housing Trust Director, as well as a couple of other community members actually this week to talk about whether or not we want to look at

creating another crossings.

So that would be kind of like the crossings too.

Would that mean that we want to build something on another location here within the city?

Can we partner with the county to create more housing for the homeless population?

So rest assured that we are working diligently on this issue.

This will actually be the third meeting that we're going to have.

Unfortunately, these things don't happen overnight.

And I wish that we could do it faster, but it is something that we're working on.

A quick thanks, I don't know if Amanda Corman is still here for the Women's Health Initiative.

They did have their opening, not here, about a week or two weeks ago and I think the takeaway is for women who are in crisis, mental health crisis, their doors are open and they will charge you five dollars to come in for a consultation.

It's mainly in response to some of the comments made tonight.

Again, thank you for everybody that came tonight and that actually let everybody else speak and be heard.

The last three weeks have been extremely trying for all of us in Charlottesville.

We've seen expressions of hatred from very many different angles from that torchlit rally in what will be changed tonight, but what is now still called Lee Park.

And we've also seen altercations on the mall or opposition to groups on the mall that led to two arrests.

My concern is, and I'm reminded of Mahatma Gandhi, I believe he said, an eye for an eye until everyone is blind.

We have got to sit down and listen to each other.

That has been said over and over again tonight.

And if we can't do that, we will, we will devolve into some of the worst kind of violence that we've all seen before in human history.

You just have to look at Salem, 1692.

You look at Kosovo.

You look at what happened in Rwanda.

You look at all these places where hate spins out of control.

I'm really encouraged by the memory of Monterey.

A Rolling Stones song, Sympathy for the Devil, kind of gives us a really good litany of what we human beings are capable of doing to each other when we don't listen.

So I want to share with you another kind of experience of the last three weeks that I've been reflecting on.

And it's a really good depiction of our city.

I ride my bike everywhere, as everyone knows, and I ride my bike to the Rivanna Water and Sewer Authority meetings.

And I ride back.

And sometimes the aroma isn't as great as anybody would like, but we're working on that.

We're getting rid of that odor.

But one day I did smell something really good, and it was a pig cooker.

And it was coming from one of the trailers.

As I was riding my bike up, the white middle-aged man who was making dinner looked over at me and I said, that smells really good.

He says, come on over.

Have some.

So what that says to me is that there's hospitality.

There's generosity.

About a week ago, I also went to graduation.

Seven people from six different countries, three different continents, they all got jobs working now in our local industry thanks to the growing opportunity, thanks to the PIVA program.

And there were expressions of solidarity and friendship between these different people and their teachers that was really quite inspiring.

And then the last thing I did a few days ago, I went to Kmart.

As we all know, Kmart's closing.

Over 60 people are losing their jobs.

I got there 7 o'clock in the morning to help people get through that turmoil.

And folks from the Piedmont Workforce Network and all the people that work in the job center were there to help people get through that awful time.

I'll never forget looking in the eyes of an older African American woman who had been working there for 33 years.

She was anxious, but she was determined.

So I look back on that and I see perseverance.

I see hospitality.

I see generosity.

I see compassion.

That is what will help us get through this.

It always has been.

And we've got to get to the point

When we put down the recrimination, especially in light of what's happening at the national level, we really are dismantling the social safety net.

We really are seeing a dismantling of the progress we've made in the criminal justice system reforms.

And our environmental protections are going down the tubes.

So as we are fighting ourselves over very many things,

The world is really crumbling around us.

It is time to put down the recriminations.

And it's really time to listen to those other voices.

And it's time for us to come together in solidarity, to work with each other, to really remedy, to really solve the legacy of Jim Crow.

So I hope we can really come together.

All right, thank you very much.

I'm going to ask Ms. Rice to read the whole thing.

Item A, Minutes for May 15th.

Item B, Appropriation Virginia Trees for Clean Water Grant, $5,500, second of two readings.

Item C, an appropriation funds transfer for the Thomas Jefferson Health District Building to the Joint Health Department Building Fund, first of two readings.

Item D, an appropriation additional funding for Family Services Program, $82,694, first of two readings.

Item E, a resolution Health Department lease by City Albemarle County to Commonwealth of Virginia, first of one reading.

Item F, an ordinance, utility rates for fiscal year 2018, second of two readings.

Item G, an ordinance, retirement plan amendments, second of two readings.

Dr. Signer, I would like to make a motion, but first I have a question.

And I know that Diane Kuknio is still here.

She's the Director of Social Services.

It's in reference, and I'm sorry if people can't hear me, but in reference to item D, the Additional Funding for Family Services Program, I understand it's additional funding that came through this year.

budget from the state and that you're planning to hire an additional worker, are we expecting that to be the new normal for funding for the state?

Is that a permanent position?

That funding was funding that we received from the state this year and it's getting added to our base budget so that will be going forward not just this year but in the

Okay.

Consent agenda carries five to zero.

Okay, moving on to the first item on the regular agenda, public hearing, item number two, public hearing resolution.

This is a bond issue in the amount of $15,250,000.

That's the first of one reading, meaning we'll have a full vote.

Mr. Chris Cullinan, Finance Director, will be presenting.

We have 10 minutes total allocated to this, so this may be a fairly quick item on the agenda.

Good evening, Mr. Mayor, members of council.

My name is Chris Kellinan.

I'm the director of finance for the city.

The item that you have before you this evening is a public hearing and resolution authorizing the issuance of up to $15,250,000 of bonds.

This bond issue represents part of the funding plan approved by city council for the city's ongoing capital improvements plan.

All of the projects to be funded with this bond issue have been previously approved and appropriated by city council in prior years and or in the FY 17 budget.

The proceeds are proposed to be used for a variety of projects.

You have those listed in the agenda item, ranging from schools, transportation and access, public safety, public buildings, parks and recreation, as well as utility improvements.

This is a 100% new money deal.

There's no refunding portion of this as current market conditions, current interest rate.

doesn't lend itself to any savings.

The bonds will be repaid over the next 20 years with level annual principal payments.

We're anticipating going to market in mid-June and the bonds will be sold by a public offering through a competitive bid.

This resolution this evening authorizes the city manager to accept the lowest interest rate bid on the bonds.

We recently met with both Moody's and Standard & Poor's, the two rating agencies,

to discuss the city's financial and economic conditions to obtain ratings on these bonds and I'm pleased to report that we received, our AAA was reaffirmed by both rating agencies.

Staff recommends that council approve this resolution and authorize the city manager to accept the low bid on the bond sale on behalf of the city for a competitive transaction.

And before we move on to the public hearing, I just want to publicly acknowledge

The hard work of Chrissy Hammel, our debt and finance manager.

This item tonight culminates probably about a four-month process.

It's about what it takes to do one of these deals in terms of meeting with our financial advisor, bond counsel, circulating documents, and meeting with the rating agencies.

And Chrissy is the one who sort of shepherds it through this process and does a lot of heavy lifting to get us here, so I just wanted to public

thank her for her efforts.

And so with that, that concludes my portion of it.

Thank you.

Any questions?

Okay, is there a motion to approve?

Oh, no, I'm sorry, sorry, sorry, excuse me.

Public hearing.

We don't have anybody signed up for it.

Excuse me, public hearing.

So we have public hearing signed up for this.

Would anybody like to speak?

Yes, ma'am.

Okay, great, come on.

If you could sign your name once you're finished, that'd be fine.

Good evening, Councillors.

Colette Hall, 101 Robertson Lane, City Resident.

You recently passed the FY 2017-2018 budget for over $171 million.

For over $171 million.

The largest budget yet for Charlottesville and an almost 6% increase over the last budget.

Yet, there are only just over 40,000 residents in Charlottesville.

You are forced by law to have a balanced budget.

But a few weeks later, the city advertises for a passage of over a $15,250,000 bond.

$15,250,000 bond.

What's wrong with this picture?

Plenty.

It is imperative to the citizens and taxpayers of this city that you curb spending and increase fiscal responsibility.

My concern is more than a AAA bond rating, service debt, and interest payments.

My concern is now for the morality of this attitude, quote, it's only money, end quote.

You must stop this fiscal abuse.

I say no to a new bond.

Thank you.

And since this was a bond public hearing, I'm going to give these to Mrs. Rice and ask her to pass them to you about item number seven on your agenda.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

Sure.

I'm sorry.

Again, my name is Paul Nelson and I do have a question for you all in regards to the reality of debt here in Charlottesville.

I'm sorry, excuse the interpreter area.

My question is in regards to the debt ratio here in Charlottesville and what does that look like for the city.

The reason I'm asking this question is, as you were just referring to the bond issue,

Okay.

And are there any other, anyone else who'd like to make a comment in the public hearing that we have open now on this?

Okay.

Going, going.

Okay, so closing the public hearing.

So as you will recall, the city's long-term financial policy is issuing up to 10%.

The debt service should be 10% of the annual general fund budget with a target of 9%.

And with this bond issue, we will actually be at 6.24%.

Just as a clarification, the target isn't really a target.

And so how much more debt service would this bring?

Or less?

Right.

But then also keep in mind we're retiring debt at the same time as well.

Do we know what that net difference is?

The total for debt service this year compared to last year or next year?

So the debt service for 16 was 7 million with the new bond issue will be at about 7.2.

I do have a quick question.

Some of the criteria that the rating agencies look for are conservative budgeting and fiscal management policies, making sure that we, one, have strong policies in place, but also that we adhere to them and we're willing to adjust when there are issues.

We also have consistently strong financial performance, meeting our ratios, staying within parameters of our peers.

that we maintain a low debt burden, which the city has a very low debt burden in comparison, and also that we have strong management practices.

And then the other piece of that are the economic conditions and the strength of the local economy, the strength of local revenues.

They look at that very closely as well.

Second.

Okay.

One more comment, if I may, and it's relating to one of the comments made by the public.

I think it's important for everybody to be on the alert for when we have a report out in the end of this month about staff's implementation of the efficiency study recommendations so that we get to that issue of efficiency in government.

Okay.

First of one reading?

Carries five to zero.

All right, thank you.

All right, move on to item number three on our agenda, another public hearing resolution, authorization of a new lease agreement for 608 Ridge Street, first of one reading.

Good evening.

First, let me apologize for the wrong name on the memo.

I did catch that.

I was wondering, I even sent her an email just in case.

It's funny because Kathy McHugh is the one that found it this morning and let us all know that I was having her come here tonight to present.

I'm here tonight to ask you to renew the lease agreement for 608 Ridge Street.

The property is currently being leased by the local energy alliance program.

They have been leasing the property for a number of years.

Their current lease ends on June 30th of this month, and they are requesting the city renew the lease for an additional 12 months with an option to extend that for an additional 12 months at the end of next year.

Staff supports that request.

We do understand that the city is interested in selling the property at some point in the future.

However, right now, looking at

The current properties for sale in the area, none are comparable to 608 Ridge Street given its unique energy efficiency features which have actually decreased or increased energy efficiency by 70% and they do have a LEED Platinum rating.

Thanks.

Any questions for Ms. Bethea?

Not so fast.

I got a question.

Mr. Fenwick.

I got a question.

Yes.

So is the city looking to recoup?

We would like to recoup all of the investment the City made in the property.

However, the current assessment I believe is about $148,000.

The City invested a total of approximately $500,000 into the rehabilitation of the property.

That does not include

and additional $260 approximately dollars of donated materials and services.

So right now the properties in the area are selling for about $100,000 to $150,000 less than that.

So you have no parameters really about what you'd be willing to take?

Correct.

What the city would be willing to take?

Okay, thank you.

Let's move on to public hearing now.

Opening public hearing.

Anyone interested in speaking on this matter?

Okay, closing public hearing.

OK, thank you.

So for the sake of the public, I those amendments are as follows.

Whereas there is a clear community benefit derived from supporting LEAP and whereas allowing LEAP to continue to lease 608 Ridge Street at a below market rate may not be ultimately in the best interest of the city as it seeks to recoup Charlottesville affordable fund housing fund monies used to purchase and renovate this property.

The remaining piece, be it resolved, is intact as is.

I have a final, be it further resolved, the council of the city of Shostel, Virginia, directs the city manager to investigate and recommend to city council alternative arrangements for LEAP within nine months of approving this resolution, whether the lease should be renewed for an additional one year.

Those are the ends of my amendments.

And to explain,

The reason why I put forth these amendments with some wordsmithing and tweaking of Councillor Szakos, which I appreciate, is because this seems to be a recurring issue that we want to get to a resolution that solves this lease because it's been advised by staff that it isn't ultimately in the best interest.

The tweak that I had added was that I really do feel that having this program in this neighborhood and active in this house does actually help our cause of building affordable housing because it's helping a lot of people build affordability within the housing that they have now.

OK.

No, there's no questions.

Any further discussion?

Okay, so we have a motion, amended, discussed.

Any further questions, discussion?

Okay, all in favor?

That carries five to zero.

Thank you.

If you'd like to say something, you can say it in the public comment afterward, but it matters with the public.

Public Hearing, Ordinance Item No.

4 on our agenda.

Cemetery access easement at Buford Middle School.

This is first of two readings, so it's a motion and a second.

Craig Brown, City Attorney, will be presenting.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Mr. Mayor, Members of Council, this is a request from the owner and current resident

The purpose of this easement will be to allow access through the Buford site to the Fife Family Cemetery, which is located at the rear of Ms. O'Brien's property.

If approved, the easement would only be available for use after Ms. O'Brien no longer owns 501 9th Street SW.

The reason this is coming before city council is that the city of Charlottesville is the record owner of the property at the Beaufort Middle School.

By law, a local school board has plenary authority over all property that is used for public school purposes, and this certainly qualifies in that category.

For that reason,

This easement was taken first to the city school board and I should say it was first negotiated or discussed between the city school administration and Ms. O'Brien and her council and through those negotiations and discussions the parties agreed to the six

terms and conditions that are enumerated in the proposed deed of easement.

And those conditions are designed to ensure future access for the O'Brien family, but also to minimize any impact on school property.

As I say, this was considered and discussed with the city school board at their regular meeting on May 4th, and they have approved it.

as they were set aside with the conditions that had been discussed.

I want to add one thing which is I heard from Ms. O'Brien today and she regrets that she couldn't be here tonight.

If we do want her to be here in person to answer any questions she can come for the second hearing.

Is this sort of required to?

Two minutes.

Two readings.

Any questions for Mr. Brown?

Any statements?

Okay, let's open the public hearing on this matter.

Public hearing open.

I don't see anybody signed up.

Anybody wish to speak on this?

Okay, closing public hearing.

Is there a motion?

So moved, second.

Mr. Bellamy, Ms. Szakos, any further discussion?

Okay, that's all we need.

So that's first of two readings.

All right.

And I want to tell everybody, I'm going to try to get through the next item.

I think we can do it and then take our customary 9 o'clock break and then begin again after the break and go to the item number six, which is the statue naming, renaming.

Park.

Item number five, public hearing, ordinance, conveyance of city land at intersection of Grady Avenue and Preston Avenue.

First of two readings, again just a motion and a second.

We have 10 minutes allocated to this item.

Mr. Mayor, members of council, this is a request from the current owner

of property along Grady Avenue that I think most people refer to as the old Monticello Dairy site.

It's that portion of Grady Avenue that runs pretty much parallel to Preston Avenue before it merges into Preston Avenue.

It's a request to sell for the city to convey certain property to the Dairy Holdings LLC, the owner of that property along Grady Avenue.

It may be easiest if you go in your council notebook

to the plat that was prepared by the Timmons Group, at least on my device here, it's page 109, and you'll see outlined in yellow the area that we're talking about tonight.

The larger block area that is parallel to Grady Avenue, I have to tell you there is a good chance that the city does not own that property because that was the entrance to what was known as Wood Street that ran perpendicular to Grady Avenue.

which was closed back in the mid 70s.

Unfortunately, the closing ordinance did not define with a great deal of precision where that closing ended in relation to Grady Avenue.

I will tell you that this area has been included by the tax assessor as already being owned by the adjacent property owner and I think it's a good chance that that's what happened when it was, Wood Street was closed several decades ago.

but just to clear up title they would like the city to claim any interest it has in that property.

There is also a second piece which is a little finger of property on the east side.

It's actually running kind of in a north-south direction but on the east side of that aforementioned block that may already be closed.

That is residue property that VDOT acquired when it was doing road improvements in that area.

and VDOT's typical practice is that when a road project like that is complete they give the city any residue land that they did not use and that's what that small sliver of land is.

Again it has always been shown on our records as actually being owned by the adjoining property owners and the adjoining property owner has maintained and paid taxes on it even though that little finger of land I think we can say with confidence

does belong to the city at present.

So they've requested that this be conveyed to them.

They own the parcels on both sides of former Wood Street, and also they own the property.

They own the Wood Street right of way as a result of the closing.

Okay.

Any questions, Mr. Brown?

I see the applicant is here.

If anybody has any questions, the rest of us did not get the shirt memo.

But if anybody has any questions for them, we can have them speak.

OK. All right, let's open.

We have a public hearing.

Right now, let's open the public hearing.

Anybody wish to sign up for this matter?

Okay, closing public hearing.

Okay, anything else anybody wants to say?

We have a motion.

Okay, we have Mr. Bellamy.

Second.

Galvin's seconding, and that is all we need.

All right, taking a five minute break now, nine o'clock.

Thanks for watching!

The End

All right.

Let's go back and let's come back in order.

I don't know.

Well, we've got the staff presentation first, so he should be back in hopefully by then.

He did say to go ahead, so I'm going to bring us back into session.

This is item number six in our agenda, the Lee and Jackson Parks renaming, first of

One reading, so we have just a full vote.

We have 20 minutes allocated for this.

It may be a little bit longer, but I would like to be very clear when we want it to go longer by having our, in accordance with our rules, having a consensus of three votes to add more time to our, to add more time to the agenda item.

The way that I'd like to organize this, I've spoken with Mr. Bellamy about this, is after we have the presentation from Mr. Jones, to have every one of my colleagues after any questions

talk for for a couple minutes about anything that we would like to say about this before we get to a motion.

We do have a motion that I understand that one counselor is prepared.

But I would like to give everybody the chance before we do the motion of expressing for a couple of minutes your thoughts because of the community interest in this topic and the range of names that have been proposed.

So that's why I'd like to.

Are there any objections to running this item that way?

So Mr. Jones.

Thank you Mr. Mayor, Members of Council.

and the Historic Resources Committee for each group's consideration.

We opened up the contest asking for suggestions for the new names online, left it open for several weeks.

We also took some suggestions via email as well and we closed that and sent that information

along to the Parks and Rec Advisory Board and the Historic Resources Committee.

We provided the top 10 names that were suggested, but we did also provide them with the entire list so that they were aware of the other names that were suggested.

There were 1,382 suggested names for Lee Park and 1,355 names for Jackson Park.

Over 1,100 submissions were received

for both Lee Park and Jackson Park.

But we considered that those suggestions were not responsive to the request to rename the parks with new names.

And we did send all this information along to

the two bodies that you asked to review that.

Both bodies held meetings where they discussed the suggestions for the names and they took different tacks to come to their list of suggestions that they forwarded along to city council

and I'll explain that in a moment, but the Parks and Rec Advisory Board submitted these names for Lee and Jackson Park.

For Lee Park, they voted for Market Street Park, Library Park, Festival Park, Community Commons, Central Park, Monacan Park, Vinegar Hill Park, Unity Park, Freedom Park, and City Center Park.

Market Street Park received two first place votes and two third place votes.

Library Park received two first place votes, one second place vote.

Festival Park received one first place vote and two second place votes.

Community Commons received one first place vote and one second place vote.

Central Park received two second place votes.

Monikin Park and Vinegar Hill Park, Monikin Park received one first place vote and Vinegar Hill Park, Unity Park, Freedom Park and Center City Park all received one third place vote.

suggested Court Square Park, Courthouse Park, Justice Park, Central Park, Unity Park, and Little Sorrel Park.

Court Square Park received five first place votes and one second place vote.

Courthouse Park received one first place vote and three second place votes.

Justice Park won first place vote and one third place vote.

Central Park won second place vote and one third place vote.

And both Unity Park and Little Sorrel Park, or Sorrel Park, received one third place vote.

The Historic Resources Committee voted as a group on the committee's suggestions.

They are as follows.

Lee Park, and this is ranked in order of preference.

Lee Park was Community Park, tied for second was Central Park or Market Street Park.

and Festival Park was number three.

For Jackson Park, they submitted four names, Court Square Park, Court House Park, the Commons, and Memory Park.

And that, once again, is in order of preference.

And their vote was a 6-0 motion that was passed with one abstention.

Okay.

Thank you.

One question.

There was one name which, and there may have been a couple of names, that when I saw the list that came from Parks and Rec of the names that had been submitted online, a lot of people had also submitted names by email and in person and at these meetings.

And one name that had come up repeatedly was Emancipation Park.

I'm not sure.

That wasn't really a question.

There's more clarification.

OK. All right, well, if we could.

again and then again before everybody saying whatever they'd like to say before the motion that just I only got to see this motion before the just just you know before we sat down this I think I have a procedural point to make about it which is the only item the agenda is the renaming of the park so the narrative item to act on I think is procedurally proper tonight when the motion is a compound motion so the one that I saw here I think I'd

like for it only to do the renaming tonight because that's what the public has been prepared for.

In the other, it would just be a separate item.

It looks like a lot of thought has gone into it, but I don't know.

That's fine.

Point of order.

Mr. Fenwick, is that okay?

Okay.

All right, who would like to begin?

I think so.

I think that that would be fine.

Unless there's a different opinion if we'd like to take parks differently.

But it seems like the parks have been talked about together enough.

I'd prefer to talk about them together if my colleagues are okay with that.

Yeah, together's fine.

Okay.

Alright, who would like to begin?

Ladies first.

Okay, I'll go at it.

So, for me, I like to think of the definition of what this kind of a public place is and it came up in some of the options, but for me, a park and what I've learned in my 30 years of professional practice is that a park is a civic space that's almost like a natural preserve.

it's a bigger area, it's open.

A square is usually reserved for public spaces in cities and they're circumscribed by streets.

So you think about Savannah and you think about Philadelphia, all their urban parks are called squares.

So with those kind of definitions in mind, these are some of my suggestions for Lee Park.

And

I have also further broken down the naming in terms of whether it's a concept that is driving the name or whether it's a physical place based geography that's driving the name.

And so I'm just throwing out more options than we need just because I want to

have some more conversation.

So if Lee Park is a concept name, I'm proposing Liberty Square.

And the reason for that is that liberty and justice for all is in the Pledge of Allegiance to the United States, not the Confederate States of America.

And liberty was the cause for both the revolutionary war and the Civil War.

If we think that we want to be more in line with a place name, a geography based name,

for Lee Park, I am suggesting Library Square.

And that's because the original library faces the square.

It meets the true definition of the word square, as I said earlier, just like Philly and Savannah.

For the Jackson Park, the concept name, I would like to propose Justice Square.

Liberty and Justice for all, again, is in the Pledge of Allegiance of the United States, not the Confederate States of America.

Administering justice is the function of the courts.

Jefferson's quote on the juvenile court is inspiring.

Quote, the most sacred of the duties of government is to do equal and impartial justice to all its citizens.

If we opt to go for the place-based name, I would say Courthouse Square.

I'll go next, as long as my lack of voice holds out.

So I'm actually, for the part currently known as Jackson, justice to me seems like a reasonable thing to call it.

The only issue I have with calling it square is that we already have Courthouse Square, which is delineating a slightly different area, and so I would

and also because you end up with two S's of lighting if you say Justice Square, that Justice Park kind of rolls off the tongue better.

But I could certainly consider that as a name for that.

The park, formerly known as Lee,

I have, I understand the impulse behind liberty and I think that I prefer it to be something strong rather than just the name of a building.

I think it's had so much power and a message for so long that we can't really make it neutral and expect it to balance out.

And so I appreciate the impulse of liberty.

I will say that I lean more toward Emancipation Park for that.

Because of those 90 years of history, I think that says something a little stronger about what we stand for and believe in in this community and want to honor.

A couple things to start with here.

One is the context here.

It's, I think, a reasonable question to raise, which is the chronology of things.

So we have voted in this chamber and an RFP is going out, request for proposals for a pretty radical overhaul with at least a million dollars going into new statues, new concept, new design that is going to put new monuments into these

into these parks, into both of them, into the Jackson and Lee parks.

There's a lot of material that could go into that.

We've had a lot of discussion about that.

We're going to refer them to the Blue Ribbon Commission report as the raw material for this overhaul and for the new monuments.

I've spoken just as one member of council, I think a very cool and interesting idea would be

If you take the guidance from the Blue Ribbon Commission that in Lee Park you could have something celebratory of current diversity, pluralism, and civil rights victories and accomplishments, and in Stonewall Jackson, in what's known as Jackson Park, you could have something that is more in the vein of a lamentation because that's where the Freedmen's Bureau slave auction block

and a lot of discussion about slavery, the story of slavery.

So you would have those, that would be an elegant concept if you will for a celebration and a lamentation that together would provide a refutation of

those what was put there in the Jim Crow era.

If you're working from that, just me personally, I would rather we reach for a value with the names rather than just kind of something more purely historical or less.

And that this is a leadership opportunity for this council to place a marker and say, yeah, there's a lot that's going to come here.

There's a lot of details to be filled in.

But let's put a name on it.

And that'll provide some guidance to the designers.

At this moment, it's a choice we made.

So of those, I inclined toward the bolder, more conceptual ideas for both parks.

Had really excellent conversations in this front with my colleagues.

All made an impact on me.

Talked most recently about this with Mr. Bellamy and Ms. Szakos.

The two or three that I was most inclined toward in Lee Park, Progress Park was one of the ones that came up.

It has alliteration.

It would talk about progress, sound kind of

I liked it.

Unity also had come up.

But I think emancipation is appealing as well.

And I think it's strong.

And it is a longer word.

It doesn't have alliteration.

But I can see people saying, let's go to Emancipation Park for this event, for that event.

And it's strong.

So I find it pretty compelling, although I would still, I just wanted to mention a couple of the others.

And then for Jackson Park, freedom came up as a specific idea of something that we would

talk about there as the antithesis to what had gone on there, but I find justice also pretty powerful.

So I could go in a number of different, and this is one of those cases where there's not gonna be a bad or a wrong answer, certainly.

I realized there was one thing I forgot to say.

I really appreciated Karen Wood coming and speaking kind of on behalf of the Monacan Nation.

And it presently will be

A placeholder name has been Midway Park for that and they're actually thinking about having a western aesthetic in native rock and talking about the frontier there.

Well the Lee statue, the disposition of the Lee statue is now in court and an emergency injunction was granted and what that means is there's a very good chance that that will be upheld in the hearing.

So there's a very good chance that that statue is going to be there

and that this will be resolved not in Charlottesville, but at the state legislature and probably the state supreme court.

So with that as a background, I would favor, and I've been talking to a lot of people around town, the names that both the Human, the Historic Resources Committee

and the Parks and Rec Committee brought forward to council.

One would be Central Park for Lee Park and the other would be Court Square Park for Jackson Park.

I just heard this evening about the idea of naming Jackson, of naming Lee Park Emancipation Park.

I only had an opportunity to talk to one person about that.

But I would like somebody to explain to me, with that statue of Robert E. Lee being there, why anybody would want to have the name Emancipation Park connected to that statue.

Where does that come from?

I think, to me, it means that we have missed part of the conversation that people have been trying to tell us for almost a year.

People see that park with different eyes.

Say, if you name it, Justice Park or Unity Park.

Justice for whom?

Unity for whom?

That has been part of the conversation.

So doing a quick check, not just in my briefing book, but on

Google.

I didn't see emancipation in there.

So given the legal situation, given what many of our friends and neighbors have been trying to tell us for almost a year, I think I would propose that we consider Central Park and Court Square Park.

And I think we should also reconsider the RFP.

because if that statue is there to spend a million dollars, how are you going to hide it?

What are you going to put there that will hide it or that will be in any way similar to it to give a different narrative?

Do you sprinkle little statues all around it?

It would still tower over everything.

So, Mr. Mayor, as well as members of council, I'd like to make a motion for a resolution.

And will I be allowed to explain?

Of course, five minutes after you make the motion.

All right.

So I'd like to make a motion for a resolution approving an amendment to the name names of Lee Park and Jackson Park, changing the name of the parks to Emancipation Park and Justice Park.

and the resolutionaries as such.

Whereas City Council voted on February 6, 2017 to remove the statue of Robert E. Lee from the park, currently known as Lee Park, and to change the name of the park.

And whereas City Council instructed staff to analyze options to carry out this decision and to present them for the April 17, 2017 meeting of City Council.

And whereas City Council has received updates and recommendations from the Historical Resources Committee,

community members via survey in collaboration with a variety of stakeholders.

Therefore, be it resolved that the city of Charlottesville would change the name of Robert E. Lee Park to Emancipation Park and change the name of Jackson Park to Justice Park.

If I may have a moment to explain, Mr. Fenwick, I think your points are very well taken in addition to- Before you explain them, I'll second and then you can- Oh, excuse me.

Sorry.

Well, the motion is made.

Oh, you already said, all right.

Mr. Fenwick, who I love dearly.

I understand where you're coming from and I felt the exact same way.

Initially when I was hearing people bring up the name of Emancipation Park and I thought that's one of the craziest things ever.

We're not being emancipated with the statue still in the background.

but I've had a change of heart from talking to several different community members several different members of different organizations and contrary to what we heard in the opening comments about acts the quote unquote black people as if we're only one person or we're just a monolithic group acts the black people what they want I've spoken to a lot of different black people and I've run this idea by them to get their opinion and what resoundingly came back was yeah we think this is fine here are the reasons why

When you look at something such as Emancipation Park, I think it forces not only this council, but future councils to a certain extent to make sure that we do right by this community.

So if that means that the statue stays until we have to go to state supreme court and then whatever happens there or who knows what's going to happen.

In terms of recontextualization, in terms of creating a direct conflict, I believe that we will have the ability to be able to do so.

And I think, again, this forces that healthy conflict that we're looking for.

In regards to Justice Park, I don't think that currently African Americans, Native Americans, people of color, or anyone who is not of the majority can openheartedly say that on a day-to-day basis that we receive justice.

However, I don't think that this park nor Lee Park is about what we're having today.

When I talk to my children, when I talk to my students, when I talk to my mentees, I don't always talk to them about today.

I talk to them about what we strive to get for in the future.

What I strive to bring to everyone, and I know that you strive to do the same thing as well as the members of council, is not only justice and equity, but we want to emancipate not only the hearts and minds of everybody, but we want to be able to empower people.

And I think this allows us to do so.

Taking a name in the manner of Central Park or a quote-unquote theme name, I don't think that moves or pushes the envelope to where we want to push it.

This is an opportunity for us to be able to show bold leadership.

And I don't think that we can show leadership by giving a name that is quote unquote bland.

If we want to be bold, if we want to do something in which we say that we're going to bring the community together, but we say in which we're going to be willing to step out on the limb,

to do something, I think this is the first step.

Now this isn't the only step because we still have a long way to go.

And as I alluded to, justice and equity isn't something that we currently see right now.

But I know that we're all going to work to get there.

And this hope of us all finally being emancipated, this hope of us receiving justice,

are two things that we can name these parks to get us to where we need to be.

It's the power in wishful thinking.

It's the power of us being able to use our collective energy to move forward to change the narrative.

And it starts somewhere, and I think it actually started last year and some would say it even started years before that, which I can agree.

But we're moving forward.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any comments?

So we have a motion on the floor.

And the Emancipation, the name Emancipation didn't really come up in our radar in our packet.

And this discussion is

Certainly convincing.

Mr. Bellamy, with your permission, I will cite you in the future on the power of wishful thinking.

I wrote that down.

Charging you guys for that.

Charging you.

Very powerful.

And I think, honestly, we live by our norms.

Our norms matter.

And it is one way to change the narrative.

I thought you gave a very powerful testimony about that.

I think we're ready.

I actually have, I'm sorry, before we vote, I have one question.

This is for Mr. Jones.

It is the implementation of new naming.

Does that go under the park services there?

So when we rename a park, how does that, the name get, does it get translated imminently in any particular way?

So all the motion does is it changes the name.

But we'd like to see, I'd like to, we'd like to see that implemented, I think.

The question is the implementation of this.

I think I would be comfortable if we just basically have given this as a directive to staff which does things like this all the time and it's up to staff.

But I just want to ask a question about implementation.

We will take this as a directive.

We will take it as a directive and it will be implemented as soon as we can.

Mr. Mayor, you also have some references in the city code to Lee and Jackson Park, which council will need to amend.

Mayor Signer, I do think that Emancipation Square has a very strong sound to it.

I would just offer that.

And then given our almost professional opera singer, her concern about Justice Square not working, I can go with the Justice Park.

I'm fine with that amendment.

I think my response is not to love it.

It's to say they're both parks.

The discussion has been about parks.

Their history was as parks.

And I think that when we refer to them as a site for festivals and for occasions and so on, that it's more consistent with the uses to just keep them as parks.

So if we say, well, this is happening over Emancipation Square, it's possible.

I'm not going to fight tooth and nail to do it, but it just seems

for the sake of historical consistency and uniformity.

They're both parks.

We're also having a precinct concept that's going to come in and treat both of the parks together.

But I'm not getting...

I got to actually join the not loving it, although I, too, am not going to.

And we talked before about it.

And I think that part of it is just that we have been talking about the park.

People have been calling it the park for a long time.

And some people who didn't want to call it Lee Park have been calling it the park for years.

But it is really changing the dynamic of the place considerably when you change the formal name.

Well, I'd like to join in for Emancipation Square.

If we're going to change the name, let's change the name.

Was the Friendly Amendment made?

I'm very much okay with Emancipation Park.

Okay, well let's take a quick hands in favor of Emancipation Park versus Emancipation Square.

Okay, in Mansevation Square as opposed to the park.

Is this okay if it's a lean?

I do like the Mansevation Square.

Mr. Bellamy, do you lean in favor of one or the other?

No, no, no, no.

That was not on the record.

I will go with Emancipation Park.