Planning Commission Work Session and Regular Meeting   7/9/2024

All right, great.

Good evening, everyone.

Focus, please.

So with that, I'll ask Caroline to call the roll, please.

Mr. Murray.

Here.

Mr. Clayborne.

Here.

Mr. Missel.

Here.

Mr. Carrazana.

Here.

Mr. Bivins.

President.

Firehock are both absent today.

That's why we rehearse this to try to be as clear as possible.

Thanks for the opportunity to speak.

If you'd state your name and general place of residence, please.

Thank you.

Being none, anybody online?

No, sir.

Would anyone like to make a motion on those?

I move to approve the consent agenda as presented.

Could we have the roll please?

Mr. Bivins?

Aye.

Mr. Carrazana?

Aye.

Mr. Missel?

Aye.

Mr. Clayborne?

Aye.

Mr. Murray?

Aye.

Thank you.

Is that okay with everybody?

Second.

We have the roll please.

Mr. Murray.

Aye.

Mr. Clayborne.

Hi.

Mr. Missel.

Hi.

Thank you.

So with that, we will move on to SP2024-6, Piedmont Grounds Management, and we'll ask staff for the report.

Thank you.

No, I'm good.

I'm OK.

There you go, right there.

you know, a separate use from the Class A country store.

But the landscape, the person, the applicant owns that entire parcel.

Yep, he owns the entire parcel.

Otherwise,

So it's approved for reopening.

Thank you.

building envelope.

So it you know, it can go within the 50 foot setback, but not the 30 foot use buffer.

And in reality, that 30 foot use buffer, I guess you're suggesting that it be planted, right?

Okay.

Yep.

Sir.

Can you enumerate what extended means there?

but we'll have the ability to review it during the site plan and put screening or landscaping anywhere along that property line as we see fit.

And so if I were to sort of want, if I would want to add on or sort of push us in a direction is the is for us to ensure that that screening comes down as far to the entrance as possible, as opposed to starting it there at the at the curve into the parking envelope.

We're not conditioning the location of the street trees at this time, but they are showing that street trees can be met with the site plan.

The blue line that's right above the landscape materials storage area, is that a contour line?

Got it.

With that, I'll open the public hearing and ask for the applicants.

And here we go.

Thank you for the opportunity.

Any questions for the applicant?

So this is a great sort of potential win-win for the applicant if they want to take advantage of it, and it's certainly a service that we need more of in the county.

I'm sure he'd, going through all this process, I'm sure he'd be very receptive to any additional funds to get this off the ground and make it happen.

So it's, you know, the homeowner wins or the local business or school or whoever's applying, but then also the landscaper gets that money as well.

Thank you.

Chris, your favor?

They're not going to be kept in bulk quantities, but I was curious, will it be large enough quantity to require like containment for like a spill or anything like that?

But I believe as part of the site plan process, we'll be going through all this with the fire marshal to make sure that everything is above bar here.

Mr. Carrazana.

Has that been discussed at all?

He has the labor and he can source the materials to get it done.

But it just seemed odd that we put the entrance right by the neighbors.

Appreciate it.

Thank you.

So why we couldn't come in that way and use that, since there are so few people coming into the property, why did it, why, just a sense of why it needed to have its own designated street, or designated entry as opposed to coming off of where it says they are there on Route 250.

And so once that, you know, goes across VDOT's desk, they want to see the entrance in the best location.

Okay, I understand that because according, I'm sort of aligning up with my colleague here about trying to give as much buffer to the house as possible so that so that they don't feel as if somehow or another they've been exposed over a period of years where there's just been a field there because there really was hasn't been any except for somebody who did some clearing where they weren't supposed to do something but other than that these the neighbors have been used to having just sort of a quiet existence there and all of a sudden if I understand it the

any kind of trailers will be in that very fancy barn there won't be trailers sort of hanging out on the parking lot so that there will I'll say there there might be some trailers in this parking envelope as well but I will say all of that is going to have to be screened from the entrance corridor and hopefully screened from the next door neighbors absolutely the building would block that the building would block any view from the next and then the other piece because not only will that but there'll also be noise that sort of comes over the

Significant there, not just some scrub bush.

And it'll honestly probably be a way better condition than even existed prior to the clearing.

And there's still a realization that both the convenience store and the shed are non-compliant, non-compliant uses at this point when they get used again.

There, well, they're class A, so they're by right, but it's the location on conforming structures.

Because they're empty right now.

Yes.

Okay.

And you're not coming here asking for a higher building.

We'd have to reason to do that.

That's what may be a little nervous, but.

and they should, it shouldn't be taller than 30 feet in that section, but no, we cannot build taller than 35 feet.

Well, with that, I will close the public hearing and bring it back to the commission who would like to start us off.

So this will be a dramatic change for them once they have someone coming in there on a daily basis.

Any other discussion, comments?

But I think we should consider as we go through the comp plan thinking about making this easier for people.

Is it in an area that's more developed or, you know, there might need to be parameters around that?

Well, I think that's a very excellent point, which, you know, I think I don't think that all areas of the rural area are made equal.

Right.

Leave it at that for now.

Good.

I move to recommend the approval of SP20240006 Piedma Grounds Management Landscape Contractor with the conditions as recommended in the staff report.

Could we have the role, please?

Mr. Bivins.

Aye.

Mr. Carrazana.

Aye.

Mr. Missel.

Aye.

Mr. Clayborne.

Aye.

Mr. Moore.

Thank you.

I said before, but I met Murray.

And this is work session CPA 2021-2 AC 44 comp plan update structure.

Ford doesn't stretch over, so we're going to switch seats.

Thank you for that clarification.

I think that that's what we're looking for.

Great.

Are there any fundamental things or do you guys want to get into the details?

And maybe it doesn't.

So you'll have a goal statement, you'll have a list of several objectives and actions.

Any other questions?

and elevate them over other potential topics that could be in there.

What other topics would you be thinking so as to have that context?

where, I don't think that elevation is necessary.

strategy of the county for the rural areas as opposed to something much more specific.

And I think as we look, I think so much emphasis put on this planning toolkits that that core conversation of how we how we establish and encourage growth to be in the growth area and rural uses to be in the rural area is kind of missing or didn't get the level of attention that it could get.

We are looking at that second part as being a way that the growth management policy is implemented distinctly in the rural area and the development area.

It's a little bit of...

So we'll make sure that's clear.

And if people begin to see the relationship between that framework for development and how that leads to preservation of the rural area, I think that's an important relationship that we need to make, because we need to maximize infill, we need to maximize adaptive reuse opportunities that we have in the county.

Okay.

As they begin to read that, they understand sort of the structure of the document and where the document is headed.

But it could stand on its on its own as 40, 50 pages that you could read and get a general sense of where we're headed.

Like a long executive summary kind of.

along Executive Summary, just within some additional details, so you get more of the story.

To Luis Carrazana.

That's our intent.

Do you feel like that might be some content that we might explore putting in this section?

Okay.

And not to nitpick the numbering here, but I would say County Vision probably would be right under introduction as we move forward to kind of set the stage.

Thanks.

provide public services and to try and increase the density and intensity to use the development areas as efficiently as possible and as wisely as possible.

Bastas, Safest, Most Direct Manor.

And then finally, sort of the community design guidelines start to be what should it look like and what are the design components that make that successful?

I'd like to see the breadth of the way that we think of activity and the rural area expanded.

Oh, make that more clear.

So as you're thinking about activity centers, that's what I'm talking about.

Could you help clarify that a little bit?

It starts to set the rules of where these types of uses would, these types of places, type of activities would be, the county would like to see them found.

We need to have a goal for them.

I didn't mean to interrupt you.

No, I'm sorry.

sort of emphasize, especially getting back to the development areas, the activity centers is an area where we really want to try and create a hierarchy that will allow us to, especially in the more regional activity centers, really push the envelope on intensity and intensity, and then, correspondingly, have the transportation and other public services that support that intensity of development.

So under the transportation, for example, if you'll also speak in this section about transportation, transit, traffic in rural areas, or that will become part of the implementation plan in the next section.

Not only what our vision for community needs to be, but where and how that vision gets implemented.

So that this part two is really to help us understand how that works for each area.

So you've got the what, you've got the where, you've got the priorities of those wares.

Right.

And we're going to the how.

Right.

Okay.

Anybody?

Yeah, so what did you want to know?

I'll go after you.

So we're thinking not about trying to provide, so we don't get into the trap of trying to provide growth area services in the rural area or the other way around.

So you're starting to talk about implementation, strategic implementation within certain areas.

Well, but I'm also talking about, it says provision of public services.

Got it.

Yeah.

You're good.

the strength of it.

It's going to get into a little bit more detail, but that section, too, is going to be pretty critical.

And if we're going to say, this is the rural area, this is the development area, here's activity centers, and here's land use, how do we make sure that we have the infrastructure?

Talking about to provide us guidance as a community on what we need to do to support that group that we need to have in these activity centers.

So was I, I mean, so I use that scenario just to wrap it up.

And we need to have the shared use path in this area, linking these two activity centers.

So is that basically the process too?

These are going to be the rules to achieve that.

See, I didn't use up all of my 50 minutes.

Any other kind of working comments so far?

is really pausing me some heartburn on this.

Can you just expand on what you might own?

That's a much broader change than a comp plan.

You know, the guiding principles to get us there.

That's where really what I'm coming.

So so I just think that that's hopefully that's what this document would have is that it creates that framework that enables the partnerships that need to happen in order for us to be able to to develop the way we we we should in a meaningful and intentional way.

I can see that.

I still have some parts.

Maybe.

discussing a little bit how these things relate to other plans that the community has already adopted, Project Enable, the Biodiversity Plan, and also sort of, what is our approach for the future area plans that we need to do, the small area plans that we've been calling them, what do they need to be, and you explained this so much better than I did, so why don't you go ahead and talk about that.

So there is some consistency as well as some expectations set.

It's how we address those plans that exist.

And what are we going to address?

And how do we get more to that density issue, right?

And it's about setting expectations, right?

But who's the person that says what color is going to be used in the crayons?

And I think it's it's trying to be more as to the extent we can be more results oriented and trying to like prioritize, hey, this is the result we need to work on next.

that if I'm going to be charged with something about healthy communities under plan implementation, but that's going to sort of start driving my strategic plan and what I request for budgeting.

I want to be careful how I answer that question.

You can say, Julian, that's kind of right.

Julian, that's kind of right.

That's all you need, because you've got people to answer every one of these questions like that.

You know, we're moving the barriers to making some of these parties actually implemented.

Yeah, I think you're right.

But you have to identify how you're going to do that at some point and then actually do it, which obviously you can't do it until something's been implemented.

No, I was going to move this on to the appendices, but if you go.

in terms of how we present that as content.

Are there other areas that you're that you're thinking of that with that doesn't quite cover it?

My holistic perspective opposed to parcel by parcel.

I think that's where you're going with that.

It sounds like it's happening, but yeah, I guess we just probably have never talked about it as a commission.

And if, you know, if you'd like, we'd be happy to, you know, summarize some of those conversations as well.

It's part of that.

I don't necessarily know that, that there is many of us who would be willing, I know there's probably one of us who's not right now, who would be willing to move in that direction, but I don't necessarily know that there's a shared approach to our living environments in that way.

And if those are areas that the built environment would be more accommodating in terms of the county establishing and increasing growth there, then that helps to unlock, I think in some of those cases.

And so

Yeah, good point.

All right, we heading into appendices?

We'll be able to come back later.

Well, no, if it's the same thing, go for it.

Talk a little bit about what those two mean in this context.

We were trying to back out and say, hey, this is a more holistic idea of not just economic development, but a thriving economy for everybody.

So I'm assuming that this is still, this is a carry forward from that, but you maybe change some of the... Yeah.

I shouldn't have to search for it.

That is something that we can do as a county under the Chesapeake Bay Act, but we just haven't.

I feel like it should be somewhere and we should say what we stand for and not have to read between the lines.

We'll assess that when we start to talk about those.

And so I think we definitely need a see also, a set of hyperlinks at the top of some of these sections so that we can link to the relevant sections and the other parts.

You want to talk about the next steps?

Yeah.

and we're crossing our fingers for a final plan document ready for spring, summer, next next year.

I would recommend that because I know we've struggled with that in the past.

You'll be seeing us a lot over the next the fall and winter because we do plan to break those up into bite-sized pieces.

And so, yeah, and just so that we have an understanding of how that would play out, I think might be helpful.

So that we can see from a holistic standpoint what we've wrestled with and how that would be implemented in the complex.

So another way to say it is use the structure of the comp plan to provide guidance for the structure of the work plan or the work session.

But if it's something else we need to get to, maybe we can, we'll give that some consideration.

So I know we'll touch on all those as we go through, but I just wanted to mention this.

So, you know, it will be flexible.

We may still continue to like see and some of that was some of the feedback we got this evening on some of this stuff, but give us a little bit of flexibility as we move forward to try and really get you the best document possible.

Wrap up comments.

be the most viable uses of those places.

But because of my income, I can take advantage of the tax structure by saying, let's put this in an agriculture and forestry.

Well, that's because the incentive has changed what's most economically viable.

That's not about economic use of the land.

Review the Board of Supervisors meeting, Mr. Barnes.

They took their July break and they'll be coming back on the 17th.

Got it.

And we'll be making this presentation to the board on the 17th as well.

I'm pretty sure we're up.

Do you like another one?

Thank you.